What about 6 month old baby girls getting their ears pierced?

(June 12, 2011 at 12:54 am)tackattack Wrote: What about 6 month old baby girls getting their ears pierced?

I would never do it, but two things could be argued.

1. It's not permanent. Holes in the ear will heal if they are allowed to. Also, it's not a surgery. The use of anesthetic, topical or otherwise, isn't necessary. I don't know of anyone who ever died as a result of an ear piercing.
2. Piercing one's ears is not medically debatable as being a useful procedure to prevent future illness. Circumcision is highly debatable as useful.

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My beautiful son. Taken today at a restaurant.

[attachment=542]

I do believe it is somewhat hypocritical when people decry FGM, while supporting it's male variety which is called "circumcision". I believe unless there is an absolutely good medical reason or their own consent, males should be subjected to the removal of a perfectly healthy part of their body.

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(June 11, 2011 at 5:59 am)tackattack Wrote: Why hitchens made such a big stink about levity yet added his own joke to teh conversation, prior the the nobel remark is beyond ridiculous to me.

To call circumcision genital mutilation is intellectually irresponsible, borderline disingenuous. We all know the horrible stories behind forced female genital mutilation.Mutilation has a serious connotation to it. I bet if the proponents of the anti-circumcision movement were instead to call it genital modification. Many people do this on their own like prince alberts, clit piercings, penis tatoos ,etc. This is just another form of expression. In this case it's religious expression, but I agree that it should be an informed decision.

Well those people who do "genital modification" consented to it, a lot of boys who are circumcised for no valid medical reason did not consent to being circumcised.

(June 11, 2011 at 1:53 am)Rayaan Wrote:

Quote:Male circumcision provides a degree of protection against acquiring HIV infection, equivalent
to what a vaccine of high efficacy would have achieved. Male circumcision may provide an important
way of reducing the spread of HIV infection in sub-Saharan Africa. (Preliminary and partial results were
presented at the International AIDS Society 2005 Conference, on 26 July 2005, in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.).

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info...ed.0020298

Mass circumcision to fight Aids: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6730261.stm

Aside from the potential benefits and risks (whatever they may be), I've been told that circumcising a
Muslim male is primarily aimed to improve his cleanliness.

The claim that circumcision prevents AIDS or offers even some degree of protection against AIDS
has long since been debunked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizv...49728.html

(2007). "Langerin is a natural barrier to HIV-1 transmission by Langerhans cells". Nat
Med 13 (3): 367–71. (Indicates that circumision may make HIV infection MORE likely)

http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/2010/0...l-associat ion-issues-statement-on-male-circumcision-of-infants-and-children-aap- no.html Royal Dutch Medical Association on Circumcision: "There is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene."

The simplest way is to look at Europe. European men have a much lower rate of being circumcised than
do US men, Canadian men, Middle Eastern men, or African men. Yet, Europe has a much lower rate
of AIDS infections or deaths than these other countries or regions.


There is evidence showing that circumcised men have riskier sexual practices than do uncircumcised men
One reason suggested for this is that 20,000 nerve endings have been removed, making the penis
more numb, and requiring more stimulation to get the same results.

As far as "cleanliness", a better means of improving hygiene is to do better cleaning, teach better
cleaning Improving hygiene through amputation of a body part frequently in need of cleaning
is pretty extreme. Care to remove someone's fingers and toes because their nails need cleaning
frequently?

"The simplest way is to look at Europe. European men have a much lower rate of being circumcised than
do US men, Canadian men, Middle Eastern men, or African men. Yet, Europe has a much lower rate
of AIDS infections or deaths than these other countries or regions. "

Although i agree with most of what you said, this right there is complete bullshit, sorry...There are a thousand factors that affect the spread of AIDS, and circumcision is one of many.

Thats the a simple way. doesnt mean its correct.

(June 12, 2011 at 6:58 am)Rwandrall Wrote: "The simplest way is to look at Europe. European men have a much lower rate of being circumcised than
do US men, Canadian men, Middle Eastern men, or African men. Yet, Europe has a much lower rate
of AIDS infections or deaths than these other countries or regions. "

Although i agree with most of what you said, this right there is complete bullshit, sorry...There are a thousand factors that affect the spread of AIDS, and circumcision is one of many.

So, are you saying that European men do not travel to other countries, that people from other countries
do not travel to Europe, are you saying that there are less gays in Europe? Do they have significantly
different sexual practices in Europe than in the rest of the world?

That is the one single difference I see between European men and other men is whether or not they are
circumcised. There is less AIDS in Europe, so it is less likely to spread, but it spread like wildfire in the
rest of the world.

What is it with parents, religious leaders, medical practitioners who have this overwelming urge to
bonsai a baby when they see one?

Your totally glossing over the whole american pratice to either not talk to kids about sex and or teach them that condoms are a sin.

What about this? Would you allow this?


Where do we draw the line with regards as to what parents are allowed to do with their children? I think anyone that looks at this picture as says it is inappropriate should also be against circumcision.

I love how they dance around about how strongly this form of slavery is allowed

Always preferred trial by fire and pain, myself.