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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 7:36 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 17, 2016 at 6:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Natural revelation?......any philosophy or theology, really, unnecessary. [1] Good work, that's it, that's all. Jesuit pope says atheists can get into heaven. [2] That's no revelation, special or general, no revelation whatsoever. Ignore that at your own peril, catholic. [3]
1) Correct, it is unnecessary for salvation. Doesn't mean it isn't helpful.
2) So do I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pay attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3) HA!, so the Pope thinks that people can have eternal life without any relation what-so-ever with Jesus? Are you saying that the Pope teaches that Jesus is not necessary for atheists to go to heaven? You might want to take another crack at it.
No one receives eternal life except from Jesus. Does that mean atheists can't receive it? No. That would be a stupid understanding of that first sentence. It means that if atheists receive eternal life, it must necessarily come from Jesus. He's the only one who can give it, and he gives it to those who do good work according to what they know.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:33 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 7:37 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 17, 2016 at 7:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: ...Good for the sake of good...
That is Thomas's position. We want what is good. Why? Because the good is desirable. Doing good is done because it's good, i.e. because it is desirable. Doing good for the sake of goodness because you know its good.
God = goodness. Doing good for the sake of goodness is the same as doing good for the sake of god, even if you don't recognize that it is god.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:36 pm
(November 17, 2016 at 7:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (whatevs...lol, shades of apolorhythm?)
You lost me.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:39 pm
(November 17, 2016 at 6:03 pm)Ignorant Wrote: (November 17, 2016 at 12:51 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Okay so, are you defining "God" as "the goodness in which things participate"? Are you labelling the goodness within anything with the word "God"?
Yes. No.
What's the difference?
Is there more to your definition of "God" besides "the goodness in which things participate"? Like, God doesn't have to have a mind or be a creator or anything else that a deity would normally have?
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:49 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 7:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 17, 2016 at 7:26 pm)Ignorant Wrote: 1) Correct, it is unnecessary for salvation. Doesn't mean it isn't helpful. Meh, good work appears to be more helpful.
Quote:3) HA!, so the Pope thinks that people can have eternal life without any relation what-so-ever with Jesus? Are you saying that the Pope teaches that Jesus is not necessary for atheists to go to heaven? You might want to take another crack at it.
Yes, that's what he said. An atheist -has- no relationship with christ. That;s what it means to be an atheist, you realize? It's the relationship or knowledge that's unneccesary, keep up. It's really not that revolutionary. The church has long thought that "savage races" who had never heard of christ were covered by the promise of the crucifixion all the same.
Quote:No one receives eternal life except from Jesus. Does that mean atheists can't receive it? No. That would be a stupid understanding of that first sentence. It means that if atheists receive eternal life, it must necessarily come from Jesus. He's the only one who can give it, and he gives it to those who do good work according to what they know. Sure, you can twist your scrote and call whatever you like a relationship..but it'll be pretty transparent if you do.
-and you don't need a relationship with jesus to get it, if atheists can get it. Again, not necessary, in that case, so why should I give a shit? I mean, feel free to present a more traditional faith, tell me I'm going to go to hell if I don't have that knowledge or relationship.....but...I'll just remind you that possession would not compel compliance, in me, so?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:52 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 7:52 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
How did we get from "we would care about a god if it existed because that would be the truth if it truly existed" to talking about Jesus? lol
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 7:55 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 17, 2016 at 7:33 pm)Ignorant Wrote: God = goodness. Doing good for the sake of goodness is the same as doing good for the sake of god, even if you don't recognize that it is god.
That makes sense but I still fail to see how you're not merely labelling goodness with the word "God". If goodness is good who even needs God?
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 7:57 pm
(November 17, 2016 at 7:52 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: How did we get from "we would care about a god if it existed because that would be the truth if it truly existed" to talking about Jesus? lol
Special revelation, lol, that's how.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 8:01 pm
You found Jesus? I bet his mayo got nothin' on mine.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 17, 2016 at 8:03 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2016 at 8:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I gotta tell ya, I've heard the good news, and I'm just not impressed.
OTOH, Your milkshakes, do, indeed...bring all the boys to the yard, Ham.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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