Very well put.

I'm still waiting to hear exactly why I should care about the theistic creator, though. I'd be interested in it, if it wanted to communicate with me. I'd like to know more about it, should it exist. But I currently have no way of doing that.

As for how it makes a practical difference, this would only matter if it started doing something. It could become an annoyance or even a threat. But there's not much I could expect to do about that, other than reason with it. If it wanted to be "friends" and even talk about improving things, then of course that would be great. If it wants me to kiss its ass, it can kiss my ass. At the moment it seems wholly unconcerned, and is doing fuck all. People just interpret events as significant because it's what they want to see.

Theist god sayeth, "Oh shit, they know too much about how things really work" and decided to become Deist god. At least it seems that way.

Oh yeah. What happened to the gods in the story books? They were in everyone's faces, burning shit, exploding people, drowning everyone, crazy stuff. Now you're lucky to get a very poor picture of Jesus in your toast.

Gods are just a placeholder for a lack of knowledge. As the gaps have got smaller, God has retreated into them. He's defined to be more and more ethereal, to the point where he's inistinguishable from nothing.

(November 21, 2016 at 12:20 am)robvalue Wrote: Very well put.

I'm still waiting to hear exactly why I should care about the theistic creator, though. I'd be interested in it, if it wanted to communicate with me. I'd like to know more about it, should it exist. But I currently have no way of doing that.

As for how it makes a practical difference, this would only matter if it started doing something. It could become an annoyance or even a threat. But there's not much I could expect to do about that, other than reason with it. If it wanted to be "friends" and even talk about improving things, then of course that would be great. If it wants me to kiss its ass, it can kiss my ass. At the moment it seems wholly unconcerned, and is doing fuck all. People just interpret events as significant because it's what they want to see.

From what I heard from theists, Gods idea motivates people to behave in above average morale level, where they instead of enjoying they life, try to swallow a very bitter pill of judgment day idea, which is a bitter but healthy method, in their opinion.

In short, God help them make their life exceptionally moral, even if the price is bitter. So, their point is "They just want to sin(usually), if they refuse such "pure" life.

(November 21, 2016 at 12:20 am)robvalue Wrote: "Very well put."

Thank you.

"I'm still waiting to hear exactly why I should care about the theistic creator, though."

I will try and answer that....

"I'd be interested in it, if it wanted to communicate with me. I'd like to know more about it, should it exist. But I currently have no way of doing that."

Yeah, as we, correctly, see it, the theistic creator DOES NOT communicate with us. Of course, the theists say that it DOES communicate with them. As it supposedly reveals itself to them in various ways, listens to their prayers, responds to them, and actually intervenes in current human affairs.

"As for how it makes a practical difference, this would only matter if it started doing something. It could become an annoyance or even a threat. But there's not much I could expect to do about that, other than reason with it."

Again, as the theists see it, the creator DOES do things (even though there is nothing to back that up), and, yeah, according to them, it "threatens" you with hell, and actually will "annoy" you with it, when you die.


"If it wanted to be "friends' and even talk about improving things, then of course that would be great. If it wants me to kiss its ass, it can kiss my ass."

To be boringly repetitious, the theists say that the creator DOES want to be "friends" with you. And wants you to kiss its ass too, with, again, the threat and reality of hell if you refuse to do either or both be friends with it and kiss its ass.


"At the moment it seems wholly unconcerned, and is doing fuck all. People just interpret events as significant because it's what they want to see."

As a fellow atheist, I totally agree: the alleged deity is doing fuck all.

But your initial premise, I thought, was to posit a creator and then question why its existence matters to you.  If by "creator" you meant the deist version of the creator, then I see your point. But if you POSIT the theistic version of creator, then, as part of the baggage, as part of your arguendo premise, you also presume the theist's notions that heaven and hell exist, that the creator is going to judge you at your death and send you to one or the other, that you have to "believe" in him and follow his rules (or else go to hell), and that the creator tries to reach you and listens to your prayers and might intervene to help you. 

And, obviously, IF those things are true, well then, they DO matter.

"I'm still waiting to hear exactly why I should care about the theistic creator, though."

Because if you will only stipulate the notion of a creator, but not that of a current communicator, interventionist and, most importantly, eternal judge, then you are only willing to stipulate a deist creator. Not a theist one.