(December 1, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Business owners ARE LAZY, sure there are many who like being in the trenches and getting dirty. But most are really nothing but bean counters who sit in an air condition office delegating work dreaming up ways to get investors. And I am not even against that. What I am against is when someone does do that, they stupidly think they did it all by themselves.

Business owners aren't lazy. It's only that we get less and less of this dying out species. One could argue that shareholder companies are still owned by people, but the parameters have changed entirely. Shareholders expect instant gratification, they appoint CEOs, the CEOs have to fulfill the demand of the shareholders. Not only to keep their jobs but to earn their bonusses. That's not a model where someone created a business and invests their lifeblood to make it prosper. We're living in a world where short time gains are all the rage and workers have become a cheap commodity. That's moving back to the 19th century instead of movig forward.

On the other hand, business needs consumers. The less you pay, the more jobs you ship out to low wage countries, the less consumers you get. At one time this model will blow up in their faces. Has to, since they want to sell their products in countries where they're drying out the workforce.

I wonder how much tired and stoned workers are going to cost ?

(December 1, 2016 at 1:01 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I wonder how much tired and stoned workers are going to cost ?

It's actually quite easy for everyone employing common sense. A happy workforce will earn you more than any demotivated people will earn you. If you don't want to do what you do, if your outright hate it, you won't invest anything other than going through the motions.

they pretend to work while the bosses pretend to pay them

(December 1, 2016 at 12:14 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(December 1, 2016 at 10:41 am)Brian37 Wrote: Holy crap, just like a climate change denier you pick one cold day and go "LIAR"

It isn't about me personally alone. It is our collective climate of the corporate attitude of work more for less, the more you do that the more counter productive it is.

Try not feeding your cat or dog for several days DUMBASS. 

Ever watch the show "Fatal Attractions" on Animal Planet? Some idiot gets a tiger for a pet, but ends up not being able to feed it then SURPRISE it attacks them.

I am 50 years old and have had many jobs since I was 17. I have worked for a few great managers, and owners, but have also worked for some complete fucking dicks, and right now our business climate is being held hostage by the dicks. Just like big oil doesn't want to face they are fucking the planet up.

We had 36 years of Reagan's "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE" it does not work. Trump is simply setting up another bubble in 4 to 8 years by pretending to care about workers.

Sounds like it's personal to you. 

So right now, hostage, after 8 years of what? And how many dicks and hours in that time for you personally? 

You are just sad.

Boy you have reading comprehension problems.

YES I do take it personally, but I am only 1 sample of a larger sample rate. 

I have seen how business owner's selfishness fucks workers over and even at my moms nursing home. Because of the dickheads whom own it, and their model of "do more with minimal staff and supplies" my mom ends up getting stressed out needlessly having to wait to do anything, and the employees get stressed out because they cant get everything done the really should be getting done.

That I do take personally. But it isn't just me, that model of blame the worker and do more in multitasking for less pay, IS in a very real medical sense causing people to have more problems medically and socially and business owners are too fucking stupid to see that it is actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

This will all be solved when all work is done by Robots, and the only people able to survive are the business owners. Except sex work, I suppose, but no. Even sex work. Though I'm sure there'll still be customers who prefer human sex partners to robotic ones, so we better get to work on legalizing prostitution.

(December 1, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Boy you have reading comprehension problems.

YES I do take it personally, but I am only 1 sample of a larger sample rate. 

I have seen how business owner's selfishness fucks workers over and even at my moms nursing home. Because of the dickheads whom own it, and their model of "do more with minimal staff and supplies" my mom ends up getting stressed out needlessly having to wait to do anything, and the employees get stressed out because they cant get everything done the really should be getting done.

That I do take personally. But it isn't just me, that model of blame the worker and do more in multitasking for less pay, IS in a very real medical sense causing people to have more problems medically and socially and business owners are too fucking stupid to see that it is actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

No sure what state you are in but minimum staffing and supply requirements are set by state law, look it up. If you think the home is under staffed you should be reporting it. Nursing home surveys and audits should be available to you through the state. If you are not happy with the service from the "dickheads" have your mom transferred. 

Or could it be that you (and maybe your mom?) have unrealistic expectations?

Edit: What is the political make up of your state? Mainly democrat?

(December 1, 2016 at 1:32 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: No sure what state you are in but minimum staffing and supply requirements are set by state law, look it up. If you think the home is under staffed you should be reporting it. Nursing home surveys and audits should be available to you through the state. If you are not happy with the service from the "dickheads" have your mom transferred. 

Or could it be that you (and maybe your mom?) have unrealistic expectations?

Just wait till you or one of your relatives end up on the receiving end. It's not that common that I agree with Brian, but I have worked the emergency services for 5 years. A job that took us to nursing homes quite often. It's but one of the reasons why I didn't want my mom to end up there. Her last days at the hospital weren't much better either. She got an MRSA, which ultimately cost her life.

Truth is, and I have to say this, you're talking out of your ass right now. Staff in any of these facilities is overworked and underpaid. It's on the ass end of desirable jobs. People tend to look away when any of this is mentioned. It doesn't concern them, long as they're healthy. And if they no longer are, they've got no lobby.

(December 1, 2016 at 12:48 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 1, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Business owners ARE LAZY, sure there are many who like being in the trenches and getting dirty. But most are really nothing but bean counters who sit in an air condition office delegating work dreaming up ways to get investors. And I am not even against that. What I am against is when someone does do that, they stupidly think they did it all by themselves.

Business owners aren't lazy. It's only that we get less and less of this dying out species. One could argue that shareholder companies are still owned by people, but the parameters have changed entirely. Shareholders expect instant gratification, they appoint CEOs, the CEOs have to fulfill the demand of the shareholders. Not only to keep their jobs but to earn their bonusses. That's not a model where someone created a business and invests their lifeblood to make it prosper. We're living in a world where short time gains are all the rage and workers have become a cheap commodity. That's moving back to the 19th century instead of movig forward.

On the other hand, business needs consumers. The less you pay, the more jobs you ship out to low wage countries, the less consumers you get. At one time this model will blow up in their faces. Has to, since they want to sell their products in countries where they're drying out the workforce.

Yes they are and  no they are not. CONTEXT.

Long hours does not mean you like sweating. It is much easier in a very literal sense, to put in more hours when you have support under you and can delegate that. It can have different stress sure, but it is not the same as combining having to work and sweat and worry about where your next meal is coming from. In that context that is much harder.


If you like sitting in an office and spending long hours delegating but don't like sweating, fine. If you like sweating in the trenches, that too is fine. But once you hire someone you are no longer doing all the work.

But yea, outside that I do agree and billionaire Nick Hanauer has said as much. You cant keep cutting jobs to more part time, expecting workers to do more for less and ship jobs overseas. You are literally cutting off your own nose to spite your face. It works great short term for the owner and share holders, but long term it simply sets up a bubble that blowup. A business will not hire one more person than they have to. Less people coming through the door less demand. Workers make the bulk of that demand, so the better paid they are the more demand it creates, the more jobs it creates.

Competition is fine, but it should be based on improving living standards, not a global race for cheap labor.

(December 1, 2016 at 1:42 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 1, 2016 at 1:32 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: No sure what state you are in but minimum staffing and supply requirements are set by state law, look it up. If you think the home is under staffed you should be reporting it. Nursing home surveys and audits should be available to you through the state. If you are not happy with the service from the "dickheads" have your mom transferred. 

Or could it be that you (and maybe your mom?) have unrealistic expectations?

Just wait till you or one of your relatives end up on the receiving end. It's not that common that I agree with Brian, but I have worked the emergency services for 5 years. A job that took us to nursing homes quite often. It's but one of the reasons why I didn't want my mom to end up there. Her last days at the hospital weren't much better either. She got an MRSA, which ultimately cost her life.

Truth is, and I have to say this, you're talking out of your ass right now. Staff in any of these facilities is overworked and underpaid. It's on the ass end of desirable jobs. People tend to look away when any of this is mentioned. It doesn't concern them, long as they're healthy. And if they no longer are, they've got no lobby.

I've been on the receiving end. Both parents, terminal cancer, first in home care, then NH, then NH hospice. I also was a nursing home consultant for up to 12 homes/yr in the 1980's for 5 years, in the homes every week day and often on weekends and holidays. I've been a part of state audits, patients care review, incident review, geriatric medical rounds, P&T committees, the strangest may have been the impaction team .... I think that my ass knows more than your ass. 

You see all types that work in the homes, caring and not, earning their pay and not, overworked and minimal working. And your right, they are not the most desirable  jobs. But there are undesirable jobs across all of working world. Just because they are not desirable and low wage does that mean they don't need to earn their pay?