(December 6, 2016 at 12:26 am)Nymphadora Wrote: It's important because if you suddenly find that you have to leave your own country, because of war, how would you feel if no other country wanted you or your family because you were refugees? How would you feel if people judged you before they ever got to know you?

I would not expect anyone to help me. As I said some posts ago, I wouldnt  feel special compared to the other refugees. If someone helps me, great. If some dont, I wouldnt blame them because I wouldnt either.

Quote:If I was the president of a country, I would send food, water, clothes, etc to help the refugees. But I would never let them in my country. I am the president of MY country, not of the world. What happens to Syria isnt my problem. 

Syria is your problem it's the worlds problem and what happens there will have impacts far outside it's borders

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(December 6, 2016 at 12:35 am)Macoleco Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:26 am)Nymphadora Wrote: It's important because if you suddenly find that you have to leave your own country, because of war, how would you feel if no other country wanted you or your family because you were refugees? How would you feel if people judged you before they ever got to know you?

I would not expect anyone to help me. As I said some posts ago, I wouldnt  feel special compared to the other refugees. If someone helps me, great. If some dont, I wouldnt blame them because I wouldnt either.

That's very sad

(December 5, 2016 at 1:36 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I know, every life important...
What do you think?

Is every life important, though?  Really?  All 7 billion of us are special entities that we have to care about because we share a similar genetic makeup?  Seems like a silly premise.

My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

And the discussions over what we should do never go anywhere, because the real discussion is over how deeply you buy into the notion that every life is important.  Some people are all in.  Most people, I think, like it in a high-level sort of abstract philosophical way.  And some people think it's bullshit.  It's all subjective.  There's no right or wrong answer to your view of the world.  It's just your view.

So you wanting to help from afar, because you think every life is important in theory, but practically, your behavior says "Me and my tribe are way more important to me, than some randos over in Syria" that's fine too.  But an interesting discussion to have with yourself might be whether you believe every life is important, or you believe your supposed to think every life is important because you were conditioned to believe it from childhood, and the idea that it may not be true just never crossed your mind.  That strategy has been pretty effective for religion.  No reason it wouldn't be applied to other things.

@ OP You say that now, but when faced with a very real possibility of getting killed in one's own country due to war, it's probably a fair statement to at least say you'd want to live, even if that meant you had to take your family and flee the country. Knowing no one wanted you in their country, it would be hard not to be angry over that.

(December 6, 2016 at 12:37 am)wallym Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 1:36 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I know, every life important...
What do you think?

Is every life important, though?  Really?  All 7 billion of us are special entities that we have to care about because we share a similar genetic makeup?  Seems like a silly premise.

My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

And the discussions over what we should do never go anywhere, because the real discussion is over how deeply you buy into the notion that every life is important.  Some people are all in.  Most people, I think, like it in a high-level sort of abstract philosophical way.  And some people think it's bullshit.  It's all subjective.  There's no right or wrong answer to your view of the world.  It's just your view.

So you wanting to help from afar, because you think every life is important in theory, but practically, your behavior says "My tribe is way more important to me, than some randos over in Syria" that's fine too.  But an interesting discussion to have with yourself might be whether you believe every life is important, or you believe your supposed to think every life is important because you were conditioned to believe it from childhood, and the idea that it may not be true just never crossed your mind.  That strategy has been pretty effective for religion.  No reason it wouldn't be applied to other things.

Quote:My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

If you a psychotic then yes they are all fine options

(December 6, 2016 at 12:36 am)Orochi Wrote:

Quote:If I was the president of a country, I would send food, water, clothes, etc to help the refugees. But I would never let them in my country. I am the president of MY country, not of the world. What happens to Syria isnt my problem. 

Syria is your problem it's the worlds problem and what happens there will have impacts far outside it's borders

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(December 6, 2016 at 12:35 am)Macoleco Wrote: I would not expect anyone to help me. As I said some posts ago, I wouldnt  feel special compared to the other refugees. If someone helps me, great. If some dont, I wouldnt blame them because I wouldnt either.

That's very sad

It is not. I am just realistic. Expecting people to show mercy for you will only lead you to sadness.

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(December 6, 2016 at 12:40 am)Nymphadora Wrote: @ OP You say that now, but when faced with a very real possibility of getting killed in one's own country due to war, it's probably a fair statement to at least say you'd want to live, even if that meant you had to take your family and flee the country. Knowing no one wanted you in their country, it would be hard not to be angry over that.

And most people here also say they would help refugees in the blink of an eye. I would like to see that too. I dont know how would react exactly to such situation, but I think I wouldnt get angry towards them, but towards those who are cuasing me to flee. If I dont help a refugee and he gets angry at me for that I would be like "wtf?" and therefore I find it pointless.

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(December 6, 2016 at 12:37 am)wallym Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 1:36 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I know, every life important...
What do you think?

Is every life important, though?  Really?  All 7 billion of us are special entities that we have to care about because we share a similar genetic makeup?  Seems like a silly premise.

My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

And the discussions over what we should do never go anywhere, because the real discussion is over how deeply you buy into the notion that every life is important.  Some people are all in.  Most people, I think, like it in a high-level sort of abstract philosophical way.  And some people think it's bullshit.  It's all subjective.  There's no right or wrong answer to your view of the world.  It's just your view.

So you wanting to help from afar, because you think every life is important in theory, but practically, your behavior says "Me and my tribe are way more important to me, than some randos over in Syria" that's fine too.  But an interesting discussion to have with yourself might be whether you believe every life is important, or you believe your supposed to think every life is important because you were conditioned to believe it from childhood, and the idea that it may not be true just never crossed your mind.  That strategy has been pretty effective for religion.  No reason it wouldn't be applied to other things.

That is indeed a good point. I think I will meditate about it. Though I believe everyone is programmed to feel pity at least towards kids.

(December 6, 2016 at 12:37 am)wallym Wrote:  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

What the eff???

Holy crap, there's been some scary ass posts on this forum recently.

(December 6, 2016 at 12:45 am)Macoleco Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:36 am)Orochi Wrote: Syria is your problem it's the worlds problem and what happens there will have impacts far outside it's borders

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That's very sad

It is not. I am just realistic. Expecting people to show mercy for you will only lead you to sadness.

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then your reality is a bleak one indeed

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(December 6, 2016 at 12:59 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:37 am)wallym Wrote:  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

What the eff???

Holy crap, there's been some scary ass posts on this forum recently.

Indeed this one may get gold in the disturbing Olympics

(December 6, 2016 at 12:40 am)Orochi Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:37 am)wallym Wrote: Is every life important, though?  Really?  All 7 billion of us are special entities that we have to care about because we share a similar genetic makeup?  Seems like a silly premise.

My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

And the discussions over what we should do never go anywhere, because the real discussion is over how deeply you buy into the notion that every life is important.  Some people are all in.  Most people, I think, like it in a high-level sort of abstract philosophical way.  And some people think it's bullshit.  It's all subjective.  There's no right or wrong answer to your view of the world.  It's just your view.

So you wanting to help from afar, because you think every life is important in theory, but practically, your behavior says "My tribe is way more important to me, than some randos over in Syria" that's fine too.  But an interesting discussion to have with yourself might be whether you believe every life is important, or you believe your supposed to think every life is important because you were conditioned to believe it from childhood, and the idea that it may not be true just never crossed your mind.  That strategy has been pretty effective for religion.  No reason it wouldn't be applied to other things.

Quote:My opinion, is that some people are just unlucky.  You can want to help them if you want.  You can want to keep them away but send help, or you can not care about them, or you can kill them.  They are all fine options.

If you a psychotic then yes they are all fine options

Killing groups of things for your own groups benefit has been the norm for pretty much all life forms on earth all the way back.

We are just lucky that most of our lives don't require it first hand.  I mean, our elected governments will drone strike some folks from time to time, finangle a coup, appease evil regimes, and a variety of other acts of 'killing them', but that's just our elected officials acting on our behalf, and they hardly could be viewed as a representation of the people they represent.

(December 6, 2016 at 1:05 am)wallym Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:40 am)Orochi Wrote: If you a psychotic then yes they are all fine options

Killing groups of things for your own groups benefit has been the norm for pretty much all life forms on earth all the way back.

We are just lucky that most of our lives don't require it first hand.  I mean, our elected governments will drone strike some folks from time to time, finangle a coup, appease evil regimes, and a variety of other acts of 'killing them', but that's just our elected officials acting on our behalf, and they hardly could be viewed as a representation of the people they represent.

1. naturalistic fallacy

2.because the government will do something doesn't mean it should do something (there is reason when such facts come to light they are condemned )

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(December 6, 2016 at 1:05 am)wallym Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:40 am)Orochi Wrote: If you a psychotic then yes they are all fine options

Killing groups of things for your own groups benefit has been the norm for pretty much all life forms on earth all the way back.

We are just lucky that most of our lives don't require it first hand.  I mean, our elected governments will drone strike some folks from time to time, finangle a coup, appease evil regimes, and a variety of other acts of 'killing them', but that's just our elected officials acting on our behalf, and they hardly could be viewed as a representation of the people they represent.

3. this doesn't refute my point