Cool.

(December 19, 2016 at 11:53 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 7:04 am)paulpablo Wrote: I can tell you've put the shutters down so you won't accept any points I'm about to make but you're wrong.

I've got in arguments with white people several times, in person, and they've specifically said something along the lines of they're going to tell some non white people I'm racist so I get beaten up.

Well none of that is remotely relevant and is completely besides the point. The fact that there are some childish people who are basically like "Imma tell those people you're a racist so they beat you up" doesn't mean that generally speaking if you're not racist you don't have to worry about being called racist. Generally speaking racists get called racist for being racist and my point is that calling out actual racists who are actually racist is a GOOD THING and not disrespectful. If a racist is going to say "HOW DARE YOU CALL ALL RACISTS RACIST! THAT'S SO BIGOTED!" then they're a fucking moron. All racists are racist and all bigots are bigots and people who actually do display racist and bigoted behavior do need to be called out on it. If racists and bigots are going to have the freedom of speech to say fucking racist and fucking bigoted things then yes everyone else absolutely should have the freedom of speech to call them racists and bigots.

That's a fucking retarded double standard to suggest that it's disrespectful to call actual racists and bigots racists and bigots. It's disrespectful to be racist and simply honest to call a racist a racist. It's letting the racists and bigots win if we silence the people who call them racists and bigots. That's fucking retarded.

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(December 19, 2016 at 11:42 am)Shell B Wrote: To be fair, in my personal life, most of the people I know who are racist love the shit out of Donald Trump. I'm not surprised at all that other people have this experience and draw the conclusion that racists like Trump. Not all Trumpers are racist, but come on. He's the obvious choice if you are. I'm not entirely sure if he's racist or just so fucking elitist that he looks racist.

Absolutely. Not all Trump supporters are racist but most racists have a lot of reason to support Trump.

Even if Trump isn't racist, supporting Trump is in effect supporting racism by proxy because of the racist things he says regardless of if he is actually racist. So yes that would make Trump supporters supporters of racism even if neither Trump nor his supporters were racist.

But calling people racist can be used as a tactic of intimidation potentially against people who aren't racist.

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(December 19, 2016 at 11:53 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 7:04 am)paulpablo Wrote: I can tell you've put the shutters down so you won't accept any points I'm about to make but you're wrong.

I've got in arguments with white people several times, in person, and they've specifically said something along the lines of they're going to tell some non white people I'm racist so I get beaten up.

Well none of that is remotely relevant and is completely besides the point. The fact that there are some childish people who are basically like "Imma tell those people you're a racist so they beat you up" doesn't mean that generally speaking if you're not racist you don't have to worry about being called racist. Generally speaking racists get called racist for being racist and my point is that calling out actual racists who are actually racist is a GOOD THING and not disrespectful. If a racist is going to say "HOW DARE YOU CALL ALL RACISTS RACIST! THAT'S SO BIGOTED!" then they're a fucking moron. All racists are racist and all bigots are bigots and people who actually do display racist and bigoted behavior do need to be called out on it. If racists and bigots are going to have the freedom of speech to say fucking racist and fucking bigoted things then yes everyone else absolutely should have the freedom of speech to call them racists and bigots.

That's a fucking retarded double standard to suggest that it's disrespectful to call actual racists and bigots racists and bigots. It's disrespectful to be racist and simply honest to call a racist a racist. It's letting the racists and bigots win if we silence the people who call them racists and bigots. That's fucking retarded.

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(December 19, 2016 at 11:42 am)Shell B Wrote: To be fair, in my personal life, most of the people I know who are racist love the shit out of Donald Trump. I'm not surprised at all that other people have this experience and draw the conclusion that racists like Trump. Not all Trumpers are racist, but come on. He's the obvious choice if you are. I'm not entirely sure if he's racist or just so fucking elitist that he looks racist.

Absolutely. Not all Trump supporters are racist but most racists have a lot of reason to support Trump.

Even if Trump isn't racist, supporting Trump is in effect supporting racism by proxy because of the racist things he says regardless of if he is actually racist. So yes that would make Trump supporters supporters of racism even if neither Trump nor his supporters were racist.

But calling people racist can be used as a tactic of intimidation potentially against people who aren't racist.

Sure, calling people who aren't racist racist as a way to get a leg up in an argument is like calling people crazy who aren't crazy. It's a discrediting tactic. No denying it. Still, act racist and you're being racist.

(December 19, 2016 at 11:34 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (Ok, so I know I said I'd stay out of this out of respect for Aroura's intention for this thread. But I just want to make one more post, which is directed at some of the responses that keep popping up here and not directed at all towards the actual OP of the thread or towards Aurora. After this, I will be done. And I hope more people will come in here out of support, and not to keep arguing with each other. And honestly A Theist, please just leave Aroura out of this. She's having a rough time. If you can't say something nice to her, just leave it be. She started this thread for support, not for criticism.)  

Oh please!
Aroura's a big girl, or at least she should be. She knew she was opening herself up when she started this "safe zone healing" thread.

She was opening herself up, surely. Maybe she should have known better.

I'm the first person to tell someone to grow up if they pop into a thread and start carrying on about their feelings in the middle of a debate, but she literally made a thread to talk about her feelings. You're just being a fucking tough guy going for the easy target. I know safe spaces trigger guys like you, but you could grow a pair and try to tolerate just one.

I wonder if everyone would've been as comforting and understanding as this if Trump lost the election and a Trump supporter was grieving.. Lol nah.

(December 19, 2016 at 12:53 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 11:34 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (Ok, so I know I said I'd stay out of this out of respect for Aroura's intention for this thread. But I just want to make one more post, which is directed at some of the responses that keep popping up here and not directed at all towards the actual OP of the thread or towards Aurora. After this, I will be done. And I hope more people will come in here out of support, and not to keep arguing with each other. And honestly A Theist, please just leave Aroura out of this. She's having a rough time. If you can't say something nice to her, just leave it be. She started this thread for support, not for criticism.)  

Oh please!
Aroura's a big girl, or at least she should be. She knew she was opening herself up when she started this "safe zone healing" thread.

It doesn't mean it's ok to kick someone when they're down just because they express being down.

(December 19, 2016 at 12:49 pm)paulpablo Wrote: But calling people racist can be used as a tactic of intimidation potentially against people who aren't racist.

Yes and that doesn't apply to calling actual racists racist for actually being racist.

If racists have the free speech to say racist things then we certainly have the free speech to call out their racism.

(December 19, 2016 at 2:13 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 12:49 pm)paulpablo Wrote: But calling people racist can be used as a tactic of intimidation potentially against people who aren't racist.

Yes and that doesn't apply to calling actual racists racist for actually being racist.

If racists have the free speech to say racist things then we certainly have the free speech to call out their racism.

Yeh I'm not arguing against that.

I'm arguing against the point you made that non racists have nothing to fear from being called racist and that claims of racism can't be used to silence and intimidate people.

(December 19, 2016 at 2:13 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: If racists have the free speech to say racist things then we certainly have the  free speech to call out their racism.

We certainly do and I hope people do, for the sake of progressivism.

My "problem" with it is that you stop there. It's easy to call someone "racist. End of discussion.", what productive comes out of that?

Because of over-use, "racist" is not an argument anymore, it's lost all meaning. Instead of immediately jumping to ad-hominem name-calling, why don't you actually explain your point of view with reasoned, well thought out arguments? It shouldn't be difficult to convince someone of the stupidity of racism, not just because racism is so wrong but because it's a bloody stupid irrational viewpoint. But when your entire argument is "that's racist." you're not adding anything productive to the discussion, or doing anything to convince people why you're right. From what I've read of a couple of your above posts, the only thing I've learned is that something is being called "racist", I'm not seeing any argument of substance going on.