(December 25, 2016 at 1:00 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(December 25, 2016 at 12:57 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Regarding this post, the reason most don't want to perform is because everyone thinks he's what the left calls him, which are numerous names, and they don't want to be labeled as such. This is how PC controls people from straying away from the cult and plantation I left. You only know it's a cult when you leave, because when you are in it, you don't see it.

This doesn't explain the numerous people like me, who are not liberals but aren't conservatives either, and find most of the "names" accurate descriptions. We are talking about a guy who has made statements / actions which are racist, sexist, and ableist.

I'm with you here, but I think this is a consequence of some of the far-left crying wolf too much: people ignore claims of legitimate racism, misogyny and ableism because the word has been watered down so much.  A lot of righties even take pride in being called a racist when they aren't saying or doing anything racist at all.  When you water those terms down so much that they mean everything, they mean nothing and I think that's what happened.

But even then, there seems to be a really heavy cognitive dissonance going on with some of the people who voted for Trump.  In all seriousness: my sister-in-law, from day one has been a big Trump supporter.  This is despite the fact that she is in what amounts to a sham-marriage with an undocumented immigrant for the sake of getting him a green card.  I'm completely serious on both these things.  She wasn't exactly paying attention when he started his campaign by calling the guy a drug dealer/rapist and she hasn't exactly paid attention while he's spent the rest of his campaign continuing to say horrible things about him and his family.

(December 25, 2016 at 9:17 am)TaraJo Wrote: I'm with you here, but I think this is a consequence of some of the far-left crying wolf too much: people ignore claims of legitimate racism, misogyny and ableism because the word has been watered down so much.

Where does it get watered down? It takes some serious mental acrobatics to call Trump anything but. It's not only in his own statements, it's also in the people having endorsed him and the staff he surrounds himself with. Steve Bannon only being the peak of the iceberg compared to the outrageous comments Carl Paladino made recently. Chairman of Trump's campaign in New York, by the way.

I tend to think, the word racist is used a little too often. Not because it is wrong, but because it leaves the rats some space to whiggle out on being called racist. Standard argument, X, Y, Z isn't a race. That's why I mostly use the word bigot. Racism is only the son of bigotry as antisemitism is the son of racism. The mindset is the same. Group X, Y, Z is inferior or dangerous and should be removed from society.

(December 25, 2016 at 9:32 am)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2016 at 9:17 am)TaraJo Wrote: I'm with you here, but I think this is a consequence of some of the far-left crying wolf too much: people ignore claims of legitimate racism, misogyny and ableism because the word has been watered down so much.

Where does it get watered down? It takes some serious mental acrobatics to call Trump anything but. It's not only in his own statements, it's also in the people having endorsed him and the staff he surrounds himself with. Steve Bannon only being the peak of the iceberg compared to the outrageous comments Carl Paladino made recently. Chairman of Trump's campaign in New York, by the way.

I tend to think, the word racist is used a little too often. Not because it is wrong, but because it leaves the rats some space to whiggle out on being called racist. Standard argument, X, Y, Z isn't a race. That's why I mostly use the word bigot. Racism is only the son of bigotry as antisemitism is the son of racism. The mindset is the same. Group X, Y, Z is inferior or dangerous and should be removed from society.

I have a facebook friend who claimed that all criticisms of Obama are rooted in racism.  So, if you criticized his foreign policy, if you criticized his tax policy, if you criticied Obamacare, that was all racism to her.  When that's what you call racism, racism doesn't mean much.

Sitting with your legs too far apart, especially in public, is called manspreading now and it's misogyny.  If that's misogyny, misogyny isn't really all that bad.  

And these are just the conversations that I, a liberal tranny, has had with other liberals.  Can you imagine how much more conservatives have heard or seen those terms over-used?  I mean, trans makes me off-limits for a lot of them to argue with, but if you're one of those evil straight white males, the gloves come right off.

(December 25, 2016 at 10:01 am)TaraJo Wrote: I have a facebook friend who claimed that all criticisms of Obama are rooted in racism.  So, if you criticized his foreign policy, if you criticized his tax policy, if you criticied Obamacare, that was all racism to her.  When that's what you call racism, racism doesn't mean much.

That's stupid. On the same lines as criticizing Israel is antisemitic or - during the campaign - criticizing Hillary is misogynistic. Thankfully I've heard little of all of that. But I tend to steer clear of FB.

(December 25, 2016 at 1:17 am)scoobysnack Wrote:

(December 25, 2016 at 1:00 am)Tiberius Wrote: This doesn't explain the numerous people like me, who are not liberals but aren't conservatives either, and find most of the "names" accurate descriptions. We are talking about a guy who has made statements / actions which are racist, sexist, and ableist.

You know it's a valid point. Before I would say it's all your perception, and your thoughts were irrational, but I'm not saying that now. I'm honestly starting to listen to understand, because I'd rather understand than just disagree. I guess the more I talk about Trump with people on the other side, the more I'm starting to hear them. Personally I see it as relative, and compared to some of the vulgar things I've heard from what I think are real racists, or sexists, Islamophobes, homophobes, etc, I see what Trump has said as very tame. As a result I didn't take what he said that seriously in comparison to what I've heard from others who were more extreme. However, it needs to be addressed how people perceive him, and why they do. I can't just discount another opinion as invalid because I disagree. I may disagree, but maybe that's because I'm comparing his rhetoric with more extreme examples.

It's almost like it comes down to the Crocodile dundee movie where he says, that's not a knife, this is a knife, and pulls out a bigger knife.

Sure, compared to actual racists, sexists, and ableists, Trump is pretty tame.

That's not the point though. In this society we should be striving to avoid saying racist, sexist, and ableist things completely. As President, that applies even more. You are a figurehead for the country.

So to me its not about the fact that he isn't extreme about his racism or sexism, but the fact that he says those kind of things at all. Even the Republicans understood that before he won the election.

@pool the great:

I would agree with some of the assessments you've made there. I think others are based on hearsay and not statements she's made publicly.

However, this isn't about Clinton. She lost. She is irrelevant now. This is about the person who won. Trump and his supporters can't just keep shifting the focus to Clinton when criticism of Trump comes up, because he's the President elect now. His actions are the only ones that matter.

I should also point out that you can say racist and sexist things without being a racist or a sexist, though I think if you say those things and you aren't joking around, you probably harbor some racist / sexist thoughts.

Trump has said these things. They are on record. We're not along you to defend them, we're asking you to recognize them and how they come across to people. Will you do that at least?

(December 24, 2016 at 11:17 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: He should book Stormfront.

How original...

(December 25, 2016 at 12:57 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Meh, I've been a news hound for 15 years, and went from being what used to be called a liberal, to now more of a political atheist, but more in line with conservatives after falling away from the left. The vast majority of Trump voters I know personally are the same. Most of us know how strange the left has become and reject it. At the same time I've met some really ignorant people who support Trump. Also have met some really ignorant people that wanted Clinton, and everyone between.

Regarding this post, the reason most don't want to perform is because everyone thinks he's what the left calls him, which are numerous names, and they don't want to be labeled as such. This is how PC controls people from straying away from the cult and plantation I left. You only know it's a cult when you leave, because when you are in it, you don't see it. The same thing happened with Obama. Any criticism even if true, would be accused of being racist, and now it's happening in a different way. And thank God we didn't get Clinton, or we would have to put up with it again by the left, where all criticism would be labeled sexist or misogynist lol.

The left in the US through the media mainly has a stranglehold on thought which prevents the truth from being told. They will be destroyed soon, but for now, it's too dangerous to cross them, because they will destroy your career.

Ah, you have the right wing catechisms down pat.