If you believe that Jesus existed, you would have to say that he could not of picked 12 worse marketers of his supposed ministry if he tried. These 2 dimensional dummies were just made up as his fall guys and made very little impact in the society that they were supposed to evangelise. After Jesus's death, over 80 cults sprang up in the area over the next couple of centuries. Some of the more prominent were Simonians, Montanists, Marcionites (Marcion was also a docetist, he wrote the first type of Bible), Ebionites, and Phibionites. 

How could people so easily be converted away from Christianity when the "truth" was firmly known and confirmed by all the miracles, resurrection and ascension?

Regarding the disciples, Paul never calls them by that name, and is silent on Jesus's ministry and life before the trial. He only knows of him via an apparition, even after speaking with a couple of the the disciples whom he calls apostles. Hardly anything is known about their lives, where they were born and what became of them after the resurrection. Only two of them have their deaths recorded in the Bible: James, whom Herod killed “with the sword” (Acts 12:2) and Judas Iscariot, who either hanged himself or fell and burst open - which ever contradictory account you believe in.

I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

Xtians are pretty fucking stupid.

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

People love to die for causes.  It's one of their favorite things to do. All that's necessary is for one guy to get on a soap box and feed them a line of BS (it doesn't really matter what the BS is) and they are eager to go die for it.  Throw in a line about how special they are and how they will gain eternal life and there's no stopping them.

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

Yes, they are very firm about that, but as you say, nothing is recorded in the Bible about it. If the story was true they would have left behind a wealth of information. I think that if they were really the first team of marketers, they failed badly. Lazarus should have been their poster boy, but he just vanished after his story was told too.

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: [edit]

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

Marshall Applewhite, Heavens Gate, nuff said.

Quote:When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

This is ludicrous on the face of it. Whether someone dies for a particular belief (not just Christianity), it speaks more to the sincerity with which the belief is held than it does to the truth of the belief. I have no doubt that martyred Christians truly, deeply, sincerely believed in what they were dying for, but that doesn't lend credence to Jesus being the redeemer of humanity or walking on water or healing lepers with a touch or withering fig trees or any of the rest of it.

Boru

Imagine meeting a very, very joyouslly excited man who could not wait to tell you a story. He tells you about a man who turned an office water cooler into wine, brought a rotting corpse back to life, caused a herd of pigs to drown themselves, attacked a group of bankers with a whip, healed cancers and blindness with a touch, and is volunteering to be tortured to death so I can be relieved of the burdens of my human weaknesses.All I have to do is drop my job and responsibilities and this fellow will take me to this magical man. Aside from considering  the potential of having a friend who can make water into wine and terrorize bankers I would move as far away from this crazy person as possible. Why  should I lend this absurd tale any credence simply because it comes from the iron age?

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

Jim Jones wasn't a scammer? There are a myriad of miriads of accounts of people being lead to their deaths by conmen and charlatans. There is no evidence that on at least some levels christianities are much different.

(January 22, 2017 at 9:42 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(January 21, 2017 at 8:57 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I've heard that most of the disciples were martyred for their faith (I have a link about this but I'm too new to post it.) I don't know where this information comes from, since it doesn't come from the Bible.

When I speak to Christians, they say no one would die for a scam and therefore the stories about Jesus must be true. Thoughts?

Jim Jones wasn't a scammer?  There are a myriad of miriads of accounts of people being lead to their deaths by conmen and charlatans. There is no evidence that on at least some levels christianities are much different.

I've always wondered about all the Christians that recanted on threat of death.  Its funny you don't seem to hear about them.  Also the proportion of who recanted and who chose martyrdom.