(February 6, 2017 at 2:07 pm)dyresand Wrote: I get it but the democrats had such a easy person to beat but the problem here is i wouldn't really have seen much of a difference in picks when it comes to Hillary winning.
Either or we would have been off in a bad situation we would escalate in Syria that was one of HRC's plans. But i didn't vote for her i did that out of good conscious would i have liked her to win now that  i look at it yes. I want the democratic party to do good i agree with Cory Booker but at the same time we need cheaper and affordable medication NAFTA definitely should be renegotiated to get some jobs back not all (just being realistic) and TPP should never exist. But this the democratic party as it stands is just one huge shit show because they have taken money and use lobbyists to get what they want done. If Cory Book ran in 2020 i don't think he will win but if he really want's to win he should go back on what he did for affordable medication it will improve his chances of winning a probable 2020 election because the good things you do now withing the 4 years of a Trump administration matters. Cory Booker like Obama can talk a smooth game but he has to back it up with things he does now within 4 years you can call repealing cheaper medication a shit stain on his record that would probably end bad  for him when he is running.

Good lawd. I will attempt to decipher the 3rd grade grammar in this shit show of a post in order to address your points. I mean, you are a fucking adult person dyre. Come on.

People in the Democratic party are really quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and you are a prime example. Clinton wanted to take a hard line in Syria, okay. I disagreed with here there, and so did most of her presumptive intelligence officials. The guy in office is threatening action against Iran and North Korea, the entire UN, many of our closest allies, and there was all of the messaging there before the election to suggest that this was inevitable.

NAFTA and TPP are flawed, so fuck them, huh? The usual line about jobs escaping to Mexico means that the clear net overall economic impact being positive because of cheaper goods, better competition, and skyrocketing trade should be fucked off? We can try and renegotiate NAFTA but you are being sold a bill of goods about manufacturing jobs. They are going away because of technology, automation, and modularization. I have seen this directly in the automotive industry in which I work. Doesn't have shit to do with Mexico or China. As far as TPP goes, it was very flawed, but the worst thing we could do is completely withdraw. In doing so, our ability to negotiate and dictate terms with China has been crippled. But as long as most of America couldn't tell you what TPP even stands for but they know it's bad bad bad, we are out of it and we can applaud our supreme leader.

Once again you do not understand the political necessity of lobbying. (EDIT: This should have read "the political necessity of dealing with lobbying.") If you are going to throw out any Democrat who accepts money from lobbyists, you are going to have zero Democrats left, unless you account the Dem "Approved" lobbies like Weed Legalization and the ACLU. Regardless, lobbying and PACs are a part of congress. Support local politicians who are intent on Campaign Finance Reform and stop haranguing people who are forced to play the game as it's played or else you will end up with a supermajority of Republicans who don't give a fuck about your sensibilities.

The point is, you can't have change unless you are in the position to make it, and your irrational rejection of anyone who someone on Twitter tells you to hate is only going to make you the Republicans' bitch, and they are loving it. Kudos to them. I don't know whether it is smarts or an inability or refusal to dig deep, but keeping people in power while Liberals whine at how imperfect their candidates are and undermine their ability to win elections is a good plan ensure your agenda survives.

(February 6, 2017 at 2:16 pm)dyresand Wrote: How Trump won in reality isn't  bigotry he won because he knew how to talk to people. 
Look at Hillary's campaign it's children, children, children, he said a bad word, he said grab them by the pussy. 
Trumps campaign is i will work with the american people, i will get a good new deal, ill put her in jail. 
Then you have the blue states in rural areas that were hit hard because of NAFTA people don't forget Bill Clinton so when Hillary
defended NAFTA and called the TPP the gold standard people were outraged. We had a thriving coal industry those people no  longer
have jobs so in reality Hillary lost because like Obama said he was in a bubble. The bubble meaning they don't understand what is troubling
average americans and lower income people because of the people they are around are mostly wealthy people and they don't understand the struggle
of the average american paying bills and putting food in the house. Id vote for some average joe who has no experience and is like a average working
joe over someone who has experience and a bit of wealth.

That is exactly what Rhythm was saying. Trump was saying the same things most people in this country were thinking. He made the 'oppressed white majority' feel like they were actually that. Once again, perception is reality.

Yes, Clinton was doing the same thing that Trump was doing, pointing out the ridiculous and terrible shit her opponent has done in his past.

So Trump sold them a bill of goods. Once again, NAFTA didn't kill coal jobs. Natural Gas killed coal jobs. The Republicans/fossil fuel lobby fracking everything in sight and drawing every Joule of energy from the earth is killing coal. Trump just told them something they wanted to hear. I will give him that. Clinton wasn't willing to lie that bad. Coal is not coming back. It is a dangerous industry with no future.

People are willing to take what they hear at face value and not even investigate it to see if it fits reality. You are really good at that dyre. Your complete lack of depth of understanding of any of these issues is scary, and I think it's actually pretty much the norm. Which is why most of the right is still saying things like "Give Trump a chance." And will likely be the reason why we will have Trump for 8 years.

(February 6, 2017 at 2:16 pm)dyresand Wrote: Well it's ironic really Trump is more of a Centrist democrat and he beat a Republican in democrats clothing.

Your intense lack of understanding of the words "centrist" and "democrat" could not be more evident.

I saw Maxine Waters on the local noon news today trying to destroy red state democrats re-election chances in 2018 . . .

SteelCurtain did a great job outlining the problem with the young democrats. It's all about fucking purity. All or nothing. And it's stupid as fuck.

Hillary Clinton wasn't a Republican in Democrat Clothing. Fuck, she's probably slightly to the left of Obama. She knew how to get shit done. She wasn't the best at running for election, but once in the job--she would have done a damn fine job. Of course we'll never get to fucking see that becuase of the fucking whiners who are okay with Donald Trump shitting all over the constitution so long as he's against TPP (Which Hillary also came out against. FUNNY ENOUGH a lot of those same people said they'd have gladly voted for Biden over Hillary. Biden was in support of TPP, so gee I wonder what the difference between the two was...) It doesn't matter that Trump TIME AND AGAIN in the campaign said he would deregulate, deregulate, deregulate. He's a centrist democrat! Cause you know, liberals are all for deregulation. OH WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE. No they aren't.

"But But Hillary's a warhawk!"

Give me a fucking break. Both candidates were warhawks. Democrats who couldn't support Hillary because she wasn't ideologically pure basically cut off everybody's noses to spite their faces.

"EMAILS!"

Who really gives a fuck? Her email server wasn't nearly as big of an issue as all the shit Trump is going to do. It's small beans. Sure, it's not great that she did it. It's actually pretty shitty--but it's still less shitty than Trump.

"We don't want the lesser of two evils!"

So you want the greater one. Got it. Good to know in the future.

(February 6, 2017 at 1:55 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: This is the issue. The Republicans are playing a numbers game, and Democratic voters are playing an ideology game. That is what is going to kill the Democratic party. We have so many half informed voters like you, dyresand, who will blow up the entire gambit over one issue and then complain when the Republicans take total control and do what they've been promising the whole time. So while Republican voters are content to vote in a fucking monster when it also means they get all the deregulation and defunding of social programs and Re-Christification of anything they can, Democratic voters will bitch about email servers and war hawking and not show up to vote for the local politicians and Congressional elections because the Democrats have a couple of people who are icky, too. Meanwhile the guy who is actually in office is threatening political/military retaliation on 3 continents and sewing diplomatic discord everywhere, destabilizing everything he touches. But Cory Booker is in the pocket of Big Pharma, man!

I think this is quite valid and I think Bill Maher is in complete agreement with you about how stupid liberals sometimes get.

(February 6, 2017 at 3:06 pm)Divinity Wrote: Hillary Clinton wasn't a Republican in Democrat Clothing.

True, she was further right than -some- republicans on -some- issues....or not.....it depended on when/who asked.

Quote:Fuck, she's probably slightly to the left of Obama.

-also true, but meaningless since the lot are moderate conservatives in any case.  

Quote: She knew how to get shit done.

-actually not true. Sure, she was adept at playing the game....but not at winning.

I've mentioned this before, but a year ago, in the cold and ice of Sioux City Iowa, I saw young people outdoors at the intersection for Southern Hills Mall marching for Bernie. have to admit, I did not see/understand what was happening there, but actually, that's not my job. It is the job of the Debbie Wasserman/Schultzes and the Donna Braziles and even the Hillary Clintons if you think about it.

And as of today, not only have they still not done anything positive in regards to that enthusiastic support, by their omission of action, they are still impeding it.

They haven't found a way to monetize it.....yet.

---

(February 6, 2017 at 2:16 pm)dyresand Wrote: How Trump won in reality isn't  bigotry he won because he knew how to talk to people. 

we agree........sort of...lol.......

Quote:Look at Hillary's campaign it's children, children, children, he said a bad word, he said grab them by the pussy. 

Right, and that's how you talk to people.

Quote:Trumps campaign is i will work with the american people, i will get a good new deal, ill put her in jail. 

You mean get rid of the mexicans and muslims?  

Quote:Then you have the blue states in rural areas that were hit hard because of NAFTA

Bzzzzt, wrong....they weren't hit hard by nafta....but hey, the inconvenience of facts vs the simplicity of message...i know, i know.  

Quote:people don't forget Bill Clinton so when Hillary
defended NAFTA and called the TPP the gold standard people were outraged.

Because "people" are dumb as rocks.  

Quote:We had a thriving coal industry those people no  longer
have jobs

-because mountaintop removal mining requires less labor - it's equipment heavy. 

Quote:so in reality Hillary lost because like Obama said he was in a bubble. The bubble meaning they don't understand what is troubling
average americans and lower income people because of the people they are around are mostly wealthy people and they don't understand the struggle
of the average american paying bills and putting food in the house.

Yeah, not like trump understands it...so evidenced by the fact that he talked the peoples language when grabbing them, by the pussy.........

Quote:Id vote for some average joe who has no experience and is like a average working
joe over someone who has experience and a bit of wealth.

If only an "average joe" would run, for a change, eh?  Wait.....wait...were you referring to Trump...there.........?

(February 6, 2017 at 1:32 pm)Whateverist Wrote: It would be nice to see experience step back and recognize that advising and supporting youth would be a more advantageous role to play.

The recruitment pool is filled with SJWs and they are unlikely to take the advice of OWM.

Because Neo is totally -not- an alt right puppet who uses terms like sjw.