(February 17, 2017 at 10:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: When is not the question you should be asking. The question is will I be ready when He does. When Christ returns and if you're still alive it will be the worst day of your life. You will find you can't escape not even if you try and take your life. This is when you will see the power of the God you've tried to mock and I can promise you for those who are not ready it will be a very bad day.

GC

You're clearly one of the really solid christers that gets a hard on imagining the misery of others..but for christians who also happen to be even semi-decent human beings..it would be the worst day of their lives as well.

(February 17, 2017 at 7:15 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 17, 2017 at 6:34 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: Good point, but when can we get a Bible that says what it means?  Why does it say this generation instead of that generation?

I know I'm probably giving you guys ammunition, but actually to get the best understanding you would need to learn ancient Greek and then interpret it directly from the language in which it was written.

Find me any two ancient manuscripts that are complete and have zero discrepancies, and you're on.

(February 18, 2017 at 12:08 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(February 17, 2017 at 7:15 pm)Lek Wrote: I know I'm probably giving you guys ammunition, but actually to get the best understanding you would need to learn ancient Greek and then interpret it directly from the language in which it was written.

Find me any two ancient manuscripts that are complete and have zero discrepancies, and you're on.

How about a single copy of a Bible where Apostle Paul doesn't countermand/overrule/contradict Jesus ?

(February 18, 2017 at 5:34 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 17, 2017 at 7:15 pm)Lek Wrote: I know I'm probably giving you guys ammunition, but actually to get the best understanding you would need to learn ancient Greek and then interpret it directly from the language in which it was written.

Why was a Hebrew book written in greek "originally"?

The old testament was written in Hebrew. The new testament, which is not "Hebrew books", was written in the common language in the Roman empire at the time, which was Greek.

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(February 18, 2017 at 12:33 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: How about a single copy of a Bible where Apostle Paul doesn't countermand/overrule/contradict Jesus ?

Give me an example so I can check it out.

(February 18, 2017 at 3:18 am)Godschild Wrote:

(February 18, 2017 at 1:35 am)Astreja Wrote: I actually don't see that much difference in risk levels.  If we're dealing with a god that maintains a place of eternal punishment, I don't think anyone is a position to assess what it's up to and whether or not it can actually be trusted.  There's just something about the concept that's setting off all kinds of alarms.

God is eternal and any unforgiven sin against Him is eternal, therefore the punishment must be eternal. The sin doesn't go away there is no resolution of the sin leaving no alternative but an eternal punishment. Also, there has to be a balance and eternal life with God is balanced by eternal life without God, to have the one the other must exist.

GC

You mean a person would spend eternity being punished if the worst thing they did is steal a candy bar?

That would be a gross injustice. Justice happens when punishments are proportionate to the harm caused. Human justice is apparently superior to god's justice, and human injustice is not as severe as god's injustice.

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(February 18, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote:

(February 18, 2017 at 3:18 am)Godschild Wrote: God is eternal and any unforgiven sin against Him is eternal, therefore the punishment must be eternal. The sin doesn't go away there is no resolution of the sin leaving no alternative but an eternal punishment. Also, there has to be a balance and eternal life with God is balanced by eternal life without God, to have the one the other must exist.

GC

You mean a person would spend eternity being punished if the worst thing they did is steal a candy bar?

That would be a gross injustice. Justice happens when punishments are proportionate to the harm caused. Human justice is apparently superior to god's justice, and human injustice is not as severe as god's injustice.

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I don't interpret hell as being forever, but either way people won't go there because they stole a candy bar, but because they refused to accept the salvation that was being offered to them.

(February 18, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 18, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: You mean a person would spend eternity being punished if the worst thing they did is steal a candy bar?

That would be a gross injustice. Justice happens when punishments are proportionate to the harm caused. Human justice is apparently superior to god's justice, and human injustice is not as severe as god's injustice.

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I don't interpret hell as being forever, but either way people won't go there because they stole a candy bar, but because they refused to accept the salvation that was being offered to them.

So they go to hell for not believing in a god that has refused to make his existence directly apparent?

It's amazing an omipotent god leaves no traces of his existence.

Such a being could prove his existence in a nearly unlimited number of ways.

It's insane to me that the requirement to not burn is to believe in that which is not proven.

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Also, going to hell for not believing essentially makes not believing a crime. Authoritarian much?

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(February 18, 2017 at 2:30 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: So they go to hell for not believing in a god that has refused to make his existence directly apparent?

It's amazing an omipotent god leaves no traces of his existence.

Such a being could prove his existence in a nearly unlimited number of ways.

It's insane to me that the requirement to not burn is to believe in that which is not proven.

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Also, going to hell for not believing essentially makes not believing a crime. Authoritarian much?

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I think the bible makes a good case for Jesus, but I had to choose to believe without scientific proof. My personal experiences, and God himself, are what keep me in the faith.

No peeking, note who said what, then go check your answers:

J or P :

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

J or P:

For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.


__________________________________________



J or P:

Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.


J or P:

For though you have countless leaders in Christ



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J or P:

the night is far gone, the day is at hand.


J or P:

Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.


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J or P:

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.


J or P:

Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;


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J or P:

All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.


J or P:

He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.

(February 18, 2017 at 3:35 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: No peeking, note who said what, then go check your answers:

J or P :

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

J or P:

For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.

I'll take them one at a time. Since you didn't give me the verses I'll need to locate some and look at the context of the verses. The first one is brought up all the time and I've answered it before. Jesus came to fulfill the law and his life on earth and death on the cross resulted in the fulfillment of the law. Since he fulfilled the law for us we are no longer under the law. It was the end of the law as it related to mankind. Actually, the law was only given to the Jews and never did apply to Gentiles anyway.