(February 19, 2017 at 11:01 pm)Odoital77 Wrote:

(February 17, 2017 at 9:40 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: One really wonders how long this can go on. Will there come a day when Christianity revises this claim, or will it simply let it go? Will they be eagerly awaiting him in the year 3000? If so, what about five thousand years from now? Ten thousand years?

So because it hasn't happened yet, it won't happen?  Anybody see anything fallacious here?

Odoital77

No, Unknown Sample, because it didn't happen when it was promised uncategorically to happen (which, incidentally, was between 20 and 40 years before the book promising was written. Oopsie!) That's a pretty big stumbling block right there.

As big as the Pauline instructions to ignore the rules that Yeshua himself said must be strictly adhered to.

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(February 22, 2017 at 8:23 pm)SteveII Wrote: [quote='HairyCyclist' pid='1514785' dateline='1487805065']

Ah, another one who is here to mock and dialog in disrespect. What does it say about a person who has that as an actual goal?

No we leave that kind of shitty behaviour up to people like you.

(February 23, 2017 at 3:07 am)HairyCyclist Wrote:

(February 22, 2017 at 8:23 pm)SteveII Wrote: Ah, another one who is here to mock and dialog in disrespect. What does it say about a person who has that as an actual goal?

Disrespect? I don't look at the human race as hopeless sinners in need of salvation. How about you Steve?

Listen, if you can't distinguish the difference on your own, I'm not going to type more than this sentence in response (and even that is probably too much).

(February 23, 2017 at 9:07 am)SteveII Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 3:07 am)HairyCyclist Wrote: Disrespect? I don't look at the human race as hopeless sinners in need of salvation. How about you Steve?

Listen, if you can't distinguish the difference on your own, I'm not going to type more than this sentence in response (and even that is probably too much).

Well viewing your fellow humans as worthless sinners is extremely disrespectful if you ask me, and I am well within my rights saying so.
Me being disrespectful about your God, and Christians viewing everyone (including themselves) in this way are not the same thing, you are right, but which of the two causes more harm?

(February 23, 2017 at 9:37 am)HairyCyclist Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 9:07 am)SteveII Wrote: Listen, if you can't distinguish the difference on your own, I'm not going to type more than this sentence in response (and even that is probably too much).

Well viewing your fellow humans as worthless sinners is extremely disrespectful if you ask me, and I am well within my rights saying so.
Me being disrespectful about your God, and Christians viewing everyone (including themselves) in this way are not the same thing, you are right, but which of the two causes more harm?

Except you are grossly mischaracterizing Christianity's doctrine on humans to make your point (straw man). The correct view is that God sees humans of infinite worth and so warranted the ultimate sacrifice of death on a cross to redeem them. Not exactly teaching that we are "worthless sinners" is it? So the disrespect you are feeling is of your own making and of course is not causing "harm".

(February 23, 2017 at 9:45 am)SteveII Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 9:37 am)HairyCyclist Wrote: Well viewing your fellow humans as worthless sinners is extremely disrespectful if you ask me, and I am well within my rights saying so.
Me being disrespectful about your God, and Christians viewing everyone (including themselves) in this way are not the same thing, you are right, but which of the two causes more harm?

Except you are grossly mischaracterizing Christianity's doctrine on humans to make your point (straw man). The correct view is that God sees humans of infinite worth and so warranted the temporary sacrifice of death on a cross twice to redeem them. Not exactly teaching that we are "worthless sinners" is it? So the disrespect you are feeling is of your own making and of course is not causing "harm".

There, fixed that for you.

Bible records Jesus being just fine shortly after both of His crucifixions.

(February 23, 2017 at 10:11 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 9:45 am)SteveII Wrote: Except you are grossly mischaracterizing Christianity's doctrine on humans to make your point (straw man). The correct view is that God sees humans of infinite worth and so warranted the temporary sacrifice of death on a cross twice to redeem them. Not exactly teaching that we are "worthless sinners" is it? So the disrespect you are feeling is of your own making and of course is not causing "harm".

There, fixed that for you.

Bible records Jesus being just fine shortly after both of His crucifixions.

No, the sacrifice may have resulted in temporary death, but the sacrifice itself was not temporary (it was good for all time). If you are going to help me fix things, try to be accurate. Regardless, my point is preserved and my answer to the "worthless sinner" misunderstanding remains.

(February 23, 2017 at 10:26 am)SteveII Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 10:11 am)vorlon13 Wrote: There, fixed that for you.

Bible records Jesus being just fine shortly after both of His crucifixions.

No, the sacrifices may have resulted in temporary death, but the sacrifice itself was not temporary (it was good for all time). If you are going to help me fix things, try to be accurate. Regardless, my point is preserved and my answer to the "worthless sinner" misunderstanding remains.

There, fixed that for you.

Might as well get the corrections correct there.  Bible inerrantly records Jesus being crucified on Thursday and again on Friday.  But both deaths were temporary.  Jesus even showed off his nail holes to disciples.  Kinda tough to be up walking around and showing off nail holes while being dead dead dead.

(February 23, 2017 at 9:45 am)SteveII Wrote:

(February 23, 2017 at 9:37 am)HairyCyclist Wrote: Well viewing your fellow humans as worthless sinners is extremely disrespectful if you ask me, and I am well within my rights saying so.
Me being disrespectful about your God, and Christians viewing everyone (including themselves) in this way are not the same thing, you are right, but which of the two causes more harm?

Except you are grossly mischaracterizing Christianity's doctrine on humans to make your point (straw man). The correct view is that God sees humans of infinite worth and so warranted the ultimate sacrifice of death on a cross to redeem them. Not exactly teaching that we are "worthless sinners" is it? So the disrespect you are feeling is of your own making and of course is not causing "harm".

I think we both know that's bullshit Steve, Christianity's doctrine relies on people viewing themselves and others as being in someway sinful or unworthy, otherwise we wouldn't have needed the scapegoat sacrifice to save our souls.

(February 22, 2017 at 8:23 pm)SteveII Wrote: Ah, another one who is here to mock and dialog in disrespect. What does it say about a person who has that as an actual goal?

And what would be the proper response to someone gloating about their belief that anyone that disagrees with them will be tortured?

Steve is sort of right in one respect: the idea of worthlessness really doesn't square with the breathtaking self-regard it takes to invent a salvation story in which a god loves us so much that he sacrifices himself to save us from his wrath. Talk about chutzpah!

The worthlessness part only really comes into play when we're talking about those who don't buy into such nonsense. Those sons-of-bitches get what they deserve.

Of course, their god feels really bad about it.

Ah, the power of narrative fiction!