I don't know why I insist on reading Little Rik; I have never been able to follow his logic? and am seldom able to read completely through his posts. They seem mostly gibberish to me. Oh well to each his own I guess.

(March 30, 2017 at 11:38 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: I knew well from the very beginning that you were a nut case   but now you go even further in order to show your atheists mates that you are on top.  
You surely are on top but on top of the mental sewer.  


By giving so much importance to the nerves that connect the pineal gland with all the rest you show that
you live in a fantasy world.
The pineal gland is something physical but the consciousness that lie inside the gland is something abstract.

This is nothing but religious dogma.  As noted throughout this thread, you have no evidence that the pineal gland has anything to do with consciousness.  That's just pseudoscientific bullshit.  There aren't enough nerves innervating the pineal gland to support the input and output of information necessary to support control of the body and other nervous functions.  The nerves in the pineal gland flow one direction: from the brain to the gland.  That's not sufficient to support all the things that the brain does for consciousness.  That's literally zero nerves for that function.  So once again you've been shown biologically wrong with your dogma about the pineal gland.  There aren't enough nerves going to the pineal gland and the ones that do are the wrong kind.  Your idea is simply a miserable failure when it comes to the supposed location of consciousness.

1) The fact that the consciousness is something abstract has nothing to do with religions.
Like most atheists you are obsessed with religions.
Every time you don't agree with something you blame on religions.
This is being dicks.    

2) There is enough LOGIC to draw conclusions that the pineal gland is the seat of consciousness.
It is located at the very top of the spinal cord and it is located right in the middle of the brain.
All other glands are lower and preside more physical functions.
But the most important evidence is that by practicing yoga meditation you feel where the consciousness
lie and that place is right in the middle of the brain where the pineal gland is.

3) All the bullshit about the nerves show how stupid you are.
You talk and talk about nerves connections and the brain as if the brain would have any say in how the consciousness works.
The brain is something physical yog while the consciousness is not.
Consciousness is the boss not the other way around so it is totally irrelevant what the brain can or can not do or the connections to or from.
When you enter your car you are not connected with wiring to the car and yet you are able to tell the car
what to do or where to go.
Nerves are there, connections are there but to understand how the system works you only have to realize that the consciousness is the one who direct the show not the brain.
The brain is like a computer that got so many information but the one who decide what to do or how to use these information is not the computer.
It is you and so the one who decide what to do in a human is the consciousness not the brain.  

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: We can not see, smell or touch the consciousness but it exist.
I did show you that the consciousness may get affected when the pineal gland get calcified.

Quote:You showed nothing of the sort.  Alzheimer's disease affects the whole brain.  Showing that one part of the brain is affected by Alzheimer's gets you nothing.  It's a correlation, nothing more.

FOOL.  

You say that you believe in science but when this science show that you are wrong you don't believe in science anymore.
I did show you a scientific study about the calcification of the pineal gland and how it affect the person
and yet this scientific study is not science to you.
You got a mental problem yog.
Go and see a psychologist before the problem get out of control.  

Quote:Corpora arenacea (or brain sand or acervuli[1][2] or corpus arenaceum[3]) are calcified structures in the pineal gland and other areas of the brain such as the choroid plexus. Older organisms have numerous corpora arenacea, whose function, if any, is unknown. Concentrations of "brain sand" increase with age, so the pineal gland becomes increasingly visible on X-rays over time, usually by the third or fourth decade. They are sometimes used as anatomical landmarks in radiological examinations.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora_arenacea

(bold mine)

Quote:Increasing calcification is a product of age.  Showing that some patients affected with calcification have a disease shows that the disease affects the pineal gland.  That's all.  It doesn't show that the pineal gland calcification is the cause of the behavioral deterioration.

Idiot.  

It is true that with the old age the body goes to the dogs so to speak but it is also true that we are able to fight back.
Take the salmon fish.
This "guy" goes against the flow of the river up and up and up until he reach the top.
Some people have the same stamina.
They fight against the lethargy and keep their body-mind fit as long as possible while most people just let go and become victim of their own apathy.
Being inside a calcified gland the consciousness is less and less able to perform to his best so it is obvious that a calcify pineal gland is the cause of many problems.  

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: As soon as I did you come down with all the bullshit about the nerves.
This clearly show that you didn't get it.

Quote:I came down with all these facts about the nerves because it clearly demonstrated that you were talking bullshit.  And you still are.

Wrong again yog.  
The nerves whichever they are they still are connections.
They have no saying in what the consciousness decide to do.
They are like the wiring in your car.
They have no saying in deciding how the vehicle should or shouldn't go so by giving so much importance to the nerves you clearly show that you are in the fairy land.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Humans beings are not only made of flesh and your nerves.

Quote:Unsupported assertion.

Forgot the consciousness yog?
That is not flesh or nerve.  

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Consciousness is much much more important than the flesh and consciousness doesn't necessary get affected only by the body-brain.

Quote:Unsupported assertion.

Fully supported my dear.
Consciousness get also affected by bad news and bad news are not necessary physical news.
Suppose a dear person near to you pass away.
Wouldn't you be affected by it?  

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: It also get affected by our attitude.
That is why a positive attitude keep the consciousness alive and well while a negative one does the opposite.

Quote:Unsupported assertion.

Wrong again (again and again)
Even this point is fully supported yog.

Everything in this universe move so there can not be a place where things stay the same.
Movement can go in both direction.
Up or down.
In the positive or the negative.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Therefore the calcification of the pineal gland get affected by both the physical aspect and the mental one.

Quote:As usual, you claim more than you know.  Unsupported assertion.

Fail again yog.  

Science slowly slowly is getting there.
There was a time where the atom was the smallest thing but later on they discovered that protons, neutrons and electrons are even smallest but the study goes on and more information come to light all the time.
This universe is balanced by the positive and the negative in all aspect of life and these tiny particles
that compose the universe are therefore positive or negative.
You may or may not see these tiny form of existence but they are there for sure or this universe wouldn't exist so by our own attitude we attract these positive or negative form of life that eventually will make us sick or happy and healty.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Yoga is all about to make sure that the consciousness is activated all the time and live in an healthy place called pineal gland.

Quote:More religious dogma that is without a scrap of evidence.  Bare assertions of "how things are" don't count for shit.  Anybody can make a bunch of assertions.

Wrong again yog.  
For the last seven thousand years smart people experienced bliss and that even before religions existed
so religions have nothing to do with bliss or consciousness.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is all so so simple yog but you being a total fool throw rubbish in the clear water turning everything muddy in your mind of course not in mine.

Quote:Yes, it's all so simple.  Your claims about the role of the pineal gland in induced experiences and NDEs are rubbish.  Your other claims about the pineal gland's role in consciousness are nothing but religious dogma.  You just spout bullshit, bare assertions, and trash talk.

The pineal gland does not experience an NDE.
It is the consciousness when it leave or separate from the pineal gland that experience an NDE.
This is confirmed by thousand of people who had an NDE and NDEs are real because a dead brain could not possibly experience an NDE.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 11:38 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: This is nothing but religious dogma.  As noted throughout this thread, you have no evidence that the pineal gland has anything to do with consciousness.  That's just pseudoscientific bullshit.  There aren't enough nerves innervating the pineal gland to support the input and output of information necessary to support control of the body and other nervous functions.  The nerves in the pineal gland flow one direction: from the brain to the gland.  That's not sufficient to support all the things that the brain does for consciousness.  That's literally zero nerves for that function.  So once again you've been shown biologically wrong with your dogma about the pineal gland.  There aren't enough nerves going to the pineal gland and the ones that do are the wrong kind.  Your idea is simply a miserable failure when it comes to the supposed location of consciousness.

1) The fact that the consciousness is something abstract has nothing to do with religions.
Like most atheists you are obsessed with religions.
Every time you don't agree with something you blame on religions.
This is being dicks.  

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck"   You can call your yoga a spirituality all you like, the fact is that it is a religion just like any other.  

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: 2) There is enough LOGIC to draw conclusions that the pineal gland is the seat of consciousness.
It is located at the very top of the spinal cord and it is located right in the middle of the brain.
All other glands are lower and preside more physical functions.

This is nothing but magical thinking.  The glands don't have shit to do with anything.  Where the pineal gland lies has fuckall to do with its function.  As noted, it doesn't have the necessary nerves to communicate with the rest of the brain.  So your notion that it being at the top of the spinal cord means anything is just a form of sympathetic magic, it's "like this" therefore it functions "like this."  It isn't logic, it's pure rubbish.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: But the most important evidence is that by practicing yoga meditation you feel where the consciousness
lie and that place is right in the middle of the brain where the pineal gland is.

Evidence.  *snort*  Everybody "feels" their consciousness to lie somewhere inside their head.  The eyes that see are on the face, and the mouth that talks is as well, and the ears that hear are on the side, so it makes sense to visualize their controller as being inside the head.  All that shows is that we are tied to our senses.  It doesn't show that consciousness itself is physically located in a particular spot.  As noted, this "spot" where you claim consciousness resides simply doesn't have the right kind of nerves for it to support consciousness there.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: 3) All the bullshit about the nerves show how stupid you are.
You talk and talk about nerves connections and the brain as if the brain would have any say in how the consciousness works.
The brain is something physical yog while the consciousness is not.
Consciousness is the boss not the other way around so it is totally irrelevant what the brain can or can not do or the connections to or from.
When you enter your car you are not connected with wiring to the car and yet you are able to tell the car
what to do or where to go.

Without a gas pedal, brake, steering wheel, and ignition switch, you aren't going anywhere in your car.  These are like the nerves in the brain, they carry the information needed to tell the car (your body) what to do.  The only problem?  The pineal gland has none of these nerves that tell the body what to do.  It only has nerves to be told what to do.  Consciousness directs; it isn't simply told what to do, so you are wrong.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: Nerves are there, connections are there but to understand how the system works you only have to realize that the consciousness is the one who direct the show not the brain.
The brain is like a computer that got so many information but the one who decide what to do or how to use these information is not the computer.
It is you and so the one who decide what to do in a human is the consciousness not the brain.

More nonsensical assertions. 

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: We can not see, smell or touch the consciousness but it exist.
I did show you that the consciousness may get affected when the pineal gland get calcified.

Quote:You showed nothing of the sort.  Alzheimer's disease affects the whole brain.  Showing that one part of the brain is affected by Alzheimer's gets you nothing.  It's a correlation, nothing more.

FOOL.  

You say that you believe in science but when this science show that you are wrong you don't believe in science anymore.
I did show you a scientific study about the calcification of the pineal gland and how it affect the person
and yet this scientific study is not science to you.

Your study showed that Alzheimer's patients show more calcification of the pineal gland.  It didn't show that Alzheimer's was the effect of the pineal calcification, nor that the behavioral deficits shown in Alzheimer's was caused by the calcification.  If you can't understand that simple point, then you don't understand scientific findings and you've got fuckall business quoting studies.  Your study did not show "how it affect the person" at all.  So your claim that it did is bullshit.

Wikipedia Wrote:In statistics, many statistical tests calculate correlations between variables and when two variables are found to be correlated, it is tempting to assume that this shows that one variable causes the other. That "correlation proves causation," is considered a questionable cause logical fallacy when two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship. This fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "with this, therefore because of this," and "false cause."

(emphasis mine)

You're guilty of a fallacy for attributing cause to the correlation between calcification and Alzheimer's.

That means your thinking on the matter is NOT LOGICAL.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: As soon as I did you come down with all the bullshit about the nerves.
This clearly show that you didn't get it.

Quote:I came down with all these facts about the nerves because it clearly demonstrated that you were talking bullshit.  And you still are.

Wrong again yog.  
The nerves whichever they are they still are connections.
They have no saying in what the consciousness decide to do.
They are like the wiring in your car.
They have no saying in deciding how the vehicle should or shouldn't go so by giving so much importance to the nerves you clearly show that you are in the fairy land.

Debunked above.  The only person in fairy land is the one who think a car can go without gas pedal, brake, and steering wheel.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: Science slowly slowly is getting there.
There was a time where the atom was the smallest thing but later on they discovered that protons, neutrons and electrons are even smallest but the study goes on and more information come to light all the time.
This universe is balanced by the positive and the negative in all aspect of life and these tiny particles
that compose the universe are therefore positive or negative.
You may or may not see these tiny form of existence but they are there for sure or this universe wouldn't exist so by our own attitude we attract these positive or negative form of life that eventually will make us sick or happy and healty.

More of Sarkar's nonsense, swallowed whole without critical thought by an idiot.  We may not see them because they don't exist.  Duh.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Yoga is all about to make sure that the consciousness is activated all the time and live in an healthy place called pineal gland.

Quote:More religious dogma that is without a scrap of evidence.  Bare assertions of "how things are" don't count for shit.  Anybody can make a bunch of assertions.

Wrong again yog.  
For the last seven thousand years smart people experienced bliss and that even before religions existed
so religions have nothing to do with bliss or consciousness.

Well, well.  Aren't we just full of dogma today?  Your Ananda Marga bullshit about the difference between 'spirituality' and 'religion' is just that, bullshit.  You don't know dick about what people were doing seven thousand years ago.  It's just more dogma.

(March 31, 2017 at 11:54 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck"   You can call your yoga a spirituality all you like, the fact is that it is a religion just like any other.

Gee, this is my lucky day yog.
Now I found in you an expert in religions and spirituality.
Whoooooooooooooo.  

Please yog help LR to understand.
What is the difference between religions and spirituality?  

Quote:The glands don't have shit to do with anything.  Where the pineal gland lies has fuckall to do with its function.

Whooo, whoooo, whoooo......this must be the discovering of the century and what has been discovered so far must end in the rubbish bin of history.
Everybody move away please.......yog is coming with the great bullshit discovery of the century.

Quote:As noted, it doesn't have the necessary nerves to communicate with the rest of the brain.  So your notion that it being at the top of the spinal cord means anything is just a form of sympathetic magic, it's "like this" therefore it functions "like this."  It isn't logic, it's pure rubbish.

Idiot.  
Is not the pineal gland that need to communicate.
It is the consciousness that lie inside the pineal gland.
In any case nerves or not nerves that by the way are there anyway between the pineal gland and the brain the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the brain via nerves.
In fact an abstract entity as the consciousness can not possibly be connected to the brain or anything else.
Abstract and physical-material things can not possibly have any physical connection.
Just imagine when you enter your car.
Would you get connected with your body to the wiring that are inside the car?
How stupid can you be yog?  

Quote:Evidence.  *snort*  Everybody "feels" their consciousness to lie somewhere inside their head.  The eyes that see are on the face, and the mouth that talks is as well, and the ears that hear are on the side, so it makes sense to visualize their controller as being inside the head.  All that shows is that we are tied to our senses.  It doesn't show that consciousness itself is physically located in a particular spot.  As noted, this "spot" where you claim consciousness resides simply doesn't have the right kind of nerves for it to support consciousness there.

FOOL.

As you are not connected to the wiring of your car also the consciousness is not connected to any nerves.
You do not need to and so also the consciousness does not need to.
It is the pineal gland that need to be connected because physical get connected to physical but an abstract entity as the consciousness can not possibly be connected to something physical.
As the car move when you start it also your body move when YOU (your consciousness) decide to act.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: 3) All the bullshit about the nerves show how stupid you are.
You talk and talk about nerves connections and the brain as if the brain would have any say in how the consciousness works.
The brain is something physical yog while the consciousness is not.
Consciousness is the boss not the other way around so it is totally irrelevant what the brain can or can not do or the connections to or from.
When you enter your car you are not connected with wiring to the car and yet you are able to tell the car
what to do or where to go.

Quote:Without a gas pedal, brake, steering wheel, and ignition switch, you aren't going anywhere in your car.  These are like the nerves in the brain, they carry the information needed to tell the car (your body) what to do.  The only problem?  The pineal gland has none of these nerves that tell the body what to do.  It only has nerves to be told what to do.  Consciousness directs; it isn't simply told what to do, so you are wrong.

Double FOOL.  

Guess what yog?
It is a fact that when the pineal gland get calcified the brain get affected quite badly so that clearly means
that there are connections between the pineal gland and the brain.
Nerves or not nerves.

Quote:Your study showed that Alzheimer's patients show more calcification of the pineal gland.  It didn't show that Alzheimer's was the effect of the pineal calcification, nor that the behavioral deficits shown in Alzheimer's was caused by the calcification.  If you can't understand that simple point, then you don't understand scientific findings and you've got fuckall business quoting studies.  Your study did not show "how it affect the person" at all.  So your claim that it did is bullshit.

Wrong again yog.

Your comment clearly show that your knowledge on this issue is next to zero.
The very science that you glorify all the time clearly tell us that when the pineal gland doesn't work properly the brain get affected badly.
In this case when the Melatonin or enough Melatonin is not secreted you get many problems related to dementia.

Melatonin has been postulated to have diverse properties, acting as an antioxidant, a neuroprotector, or a stabilizer within the circadian timing system, and is thus thought to be involved in the aging process and Alzheimer's disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17097768

Quote:You're guilty of a fallacy for attributing cause to the correlation between calcification and Alzheimer's.
That means your thinking on the matter is NOT LOGICAL.

Sorry darling but science back me up as you can see above.    

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: Science slowly slowly is getting there.
There was a time where the atom was the smallest thing but later on they discovered that protons, neutrons and electrons are even smallest but the study goes on and more information come to light all the time.
This universe is balanced by the positive and the negative in all aspect of life and these tiny particles
that compose the universe are therefore positive or negative.
You may or may not see these tiny form of existence but they are there for sure or this universe wouldn't exist so by our own attitude we attract these positive or negative form of life that eventually will make us sick or happy and healty.

Quote:More of Sarkar's nonsense, swallowed whole without critical thought by an idiot.  We may not see them because they don't exist.  Duh.

Dumb.  

As love is attraction hate is repulsion nevertheless both thing have something in common and that is a
feeling that carry these sentiments.
This feeling is made of something invisible.
The fact that this feeling can not be grasped physically doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

(March 31, 2017 at 8:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: Wrong again yog.  
For the last seven thousand years smart people experienced bliss and that even before religions existed
so religions have nothing to do with bliss or consciousness.

Quote:Well, well.  Aren't we just full of dogma today?  Your Ananda Marga bullshit about the difference between 'spirituality' and 'religion' is just that, bullshit.  You don't know dick about what people were doing seven thousand years ago.  It's just more dogma.

It is well known that religions pop up only after those who were teaching spirituality such as Shiva, Krishna, Buddha and Jesus.
These beings never teach religions.
In fact they all were against it.
Not because there were religions yet but because they knew that some opportunistic people would
turn their spiritual teachings into religious dogmas.  

(April 1, 2017 at 9:36 am)Little Rik Wrote: Idiot.  
Is not the pineal gland that need to communicate.
It is the consciousness that lie inside the pineal gland.
In any case nerves or not nerves that by the way are there anyway between the pineal gland and the brain the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the brain via nerves.
In fact an abstract entity as the consciousness can not possibly be connected to the brain or anything else.
Abstract and physical-material things can not possibly have any physical connection.

This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. It's a known fact that impulses from your nerves to your muscles causes them to contract. They don't just magically contract when consciousness wills it, otherwise there would be no paralysis when you cut the nerves. So consciousness has to connect with the nerves someplace or it wouldn't be able to command the muscles in the body. You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning.

(April 1, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(April 1, 2017 at 9:36 am)Little Rik Wrote: Idiot.  
Is not the pineal gland that need to communicate.
It is the consciousness that lie inside the pineal gland.
In any case nerves or not nerves that by the way are there anyway between the pineal gland and the brain the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the brain via nerves.
In fact an abstract entity as the consciousness can not possibly be connected to the brain or anything else.
Abstract and physical-material things can not possibly have any physical connection.

This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.  It's a known fact that impulses from your nerves to your muscles causes them to contract.  They don't just magically contract when consciousness wills it, otherwise there would be no paralysis when you cut the nerves.  So consciousness has to connect with the nerves someplace or it wouldn't be able to command the muscles in the body.  You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning.

He's completely lost in his own world and his incessant appeal to his consciousness dualism mumbo-jumbo isn't going to subside anytime soon.

(April 1, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(April 1, 2017 at 9:36 am)Little Rik Wrote: Idiot.  
Is not the pineal gland that need to communicate.
It is the consciousness that lie inside the pineal gland.
In any case nerves or not nerves that by the way are there anyway between the pineal gland and the brain the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the brain via nerves.
In fact an abstract entity as the consciousness can not possibly be connected to the brain or anything else.
Abstract and physical-material things can not possibly have any physical connection.

This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.  It's a known fact that impulses from your nerves to your muscles causes them to contract.  They don't just magically contract when consciousness wills it, otherwise there would be no paralysis when you cut the nerves.  So consciousness has to connect with the nerves someplace or it wouldn't be able to command the muscles in the body.  You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning.

I saw a grasshopper that continue to jump around for few more minutes after her head was chopped off.
No brain and no consciousness was there yet her body continue to move.
The nerves only need to be connected to the brain not to the consciousness but even if the grasshopper
did not have anymore connection with the brain her body continue to move.
That is pretty bizarre yog.  

As you don't need to be connected to any wiring when you drive your car also the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the nerves.
Of course there is a connection between the consciousness and the brain but that is not via nerves.
It is impossible to connect matter as the brain with an abstract entity such as the consciousness via physical means.

An abstract entity does not have any point of entrance for the nerves to enter.
None of whatsoever but the brain does that is why the nerves are connected to the brain and not to the consciousness.
It is then the brain job to get a connection with the consciousness other than a physical connection.
Your dogma yog is that you think that everything must operate in physical terms alone.  

You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning  

---

(March 29, 2017 at 8:39 am)Whateverist Wrote: Good morning Rik.  Hope you are enjoying your life and your beliefs.  Things are fine with my world and beliefs too, so no need for worry there, mate.  Don't worry I won't be trying to sell you my beliefs.  I like them but you go with what works for you chum.

Ehhhm Whatever I must apologize to you if I remind you what a forum is all about.  

A forum is all about an exchange of ideas in order to have a better understand of the reality.
If you are not prepared or interested in exchanging ideas for this purpose then what you do here?  
Have you ever considered to join a club in which everybody in there follow the same philosophy of life?  

(April 2, 2017 at 4:12 am)Little Rik Wrote: You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning  

Qft.

(April 2, 2017 at 4:12 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 1, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.  It's a known fact that impulses from your nerves to your muscles causes them to contract.  They don't just magically contract when consciousness wills it, otherwise there would be no paralysis when you cut the nerves.  So consciousness has to connect with the nerves someplace or it wouldn't be able to command the muscles in the body.  You're so stupendously wrong here that it's stunning.

I saw a grasshopper that continue to jump around for few more minutes after her head was chopped off.
No brain and no consciousness was there yet her body continue to move.
The nerves only need to be connected to the brain not to the consciousness but even if the grasshopper
did not have anymore connection with the brain her body continue to move.
That is pretty bizarre yog.  

As you don't need to be connected to any wiring when you drive your car also the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the nerves.
Of course there is a connection between the consciousness and the brain but that is not via nerves.
It is impossible to connect matter as the brain with an abstract entity such as the consciousness via physical means.

An abstract entity does not have any point of entrance for the nerves to enter.
None of whatsoever but the brain does that is why the nerves are connected to the brain and not to the consciousness.
It is then the brain job to get a connection with the consciousness other than a physical connection.
Your dogma yog is that you think that everything must operate in physical terms alone.  

Dualist mumbo jumbo without a shred of evidence. By the way, the brain is made up of nerves, dumbass.

My 'dogma' is to go where the evidence lies, and it lies in the direction of us living in a physical world with physical effects. Your claim that consciousness is an abstract is nothing more than the claim that it is nonphysical in different words. You're just talking in a circle. And all you're doing is asserting things without evidence.

Consciousness is a product of the brain. Once you get past your dogma which has no evidence to support it, that's where the evidence lies. I've posted the evidence several times, and you've denied it, but not explained why it's not evidence. The real reason is because you can't explain the evidence.

Quote:I quote here from The Case Against Immortality, by Keith Augustine.

(F1) The evolution of species demonstrates that development of the brain obtains a corresponding mental development.
“First, phylogenetic evidence refers to the evolutionary relationship between the complexity of the brain and a species’ cognitive traits (Beyerstein 45). Corliss Lamont sums up this evidence: “We find that the greater the size of the brain and its cerebral cortex in relation to the animal body and the greater their complexity, the higher and more versatile the form of life” (Lamont 63).”

(F2) The same principle is demonstrated by brain growth in individual organisms.
“Secondly, the developmental evidence for mind-brain dependence is that mental abilities emerge with the development of the brain; failure in brain development prevents mental development (Beyerstein 45).

(F3) Brain damage destroys mental capacities.
“Third, clinical evidence consists of cases of brain damage that result from accidents, toxins, diseases, and malnutrition that often result in irreversible losses of mental functioning (45). If the mind could exist independently of the brain, why couldn’t the mind compensate for lost faculties when brain cells die after brain damage? (46).”

(F4) Experiments and measurements on the brain (EEG, stimulation of various areas) indicate a correspondence between brain activity and mental activity.
“Fourth, the strongest empirical evidence for mind-brain dependence is derived from experiments in neuroscience. Mental states are correlated with brain states; electrical or chemical stimulation of the human brain invokes perceptions, memories, desires, and other mental states (45).”

(F5) The effects of drugs show correspondence between brain activity and mental activity.
“Finally, the experiential evidence for mind-brain dependence consists of the effects of several different types of drugs which predictably affect mental states (45).”

http://www.strongatheism.net/library/ath...ind_brain/

(April 2, 2017 at 11:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(April 2, 2017 at 4:12 am)Little Rik Wrote: I saw a grasshopper that continue to jump around for few more minutes after her head was chopped off.
No brain and no consciousness was there yet her body continue to move.
The nerves only need to be connected to the brain not to the consciousness but even if the grasshopper
did not have anymore connection with the brain her body continue to move.
That is pretty bizarre yog.  

As you don't need to be connected to any wiring when you drive your car also the consciousness doesn't need to be connected to the nerves.
Of course there is a connection between the consciousness and the brain but that is not via nerves.
It is impossible to connect matter as the brain with an abstract entity such as the consciousness via physical means.

An abstract entity does not have any point of entrance for the nerves to enter.
None of whatsoever but the brain does that is why the nerves are connected to the brain and not to the consciousness.
It is then the brain job to get a connection with the consciousness other than a physical connection.
Your dogma yog is that you think that everything must operate in physical terms alone.  

Dualist mumbo jumbo without a shred of evidence.  By the way, the brain is made up of nerves, dumbass.  

My 'dogma' is to go where the evidence lies, and it lies in the direction of us living in a physical world with physical effects.    Your claim that consciousness is an abstract is nothing more than the claim that it is nonphysical in different words.  You're just talking in a circle.  And all you're doing is asserting things without evidence.

Consciousness is a product of the brain.  Once you get past your dogma which has no evidence to support it, that's where the evidence lies.  I've posted the evidence several times, and you've denied it, but not explained why it's not evidence.  The real reason is because you can't explain the evidence.

Quote:I quote here from The Case Against Immortality, by Keith Augustine.

(F1) The evolution of species demonstrates that development of the brain obtains a corresponding mental development.
“First, phylogenetic evidence refers to the evolutionary relationship between the complexity of the brain and a species’ cognitive traits (Beyerstein 45). Corliss Lamont sums up this evidence: “We find that the greater the size of the brain and its cerebral cortex in relation to the animal body and the greater their complexity, the higher and more versatile the form of life” (Lamont 63).”

(F2) The same principle is demonstrated by brain growth in individual organisms.
“Secondly, the developmental evidence for mind-brain dependence is that mental abilities emerge with the development of the brain; failure in brain development prevents mental development (Beyerstein 45).

(F3) Brain damage destroys mental capacities.
“Third, clinical evidence consists of cases of brain damage that result from accidents, toxins, diseases, and malnutrition that often result in irreversible losses of mental functioning (45). If the mind could exist independently of the brain, why couldn’t the mind compensate for lost faculties when brain cells die after brain damage? (46).”

(F4) Experiments and measurements on the brain (EEG, stimulation of various areas) indicate a correspondence between brain activity and mental activity.
“Fourth, the strongest empirical evidence for mind-brain dependence is derived from experiments in neuroscience. Mental states are correlated with brain states; electrical or chemical stimulation of the human brain invokes perceptions, memories, desires, and other mental states (45).”

(F5) The effects of drugs show correspondence between brain activity and mental activity.
“Finally, the experiential evidence for mind-brain dependence consists of the effects of several different types of drugs which predictably affect mental states (45).”

http://www.strongatheism.net/library/ath...ind_brain/

All garbage and dogma my dear.  

When the body-brain die the consciousness survive as proven by many many NDEs.
That means that the consciousness is superior to the brain therefore it is the consciousness
the boss not the brain.