For me it's 2 things. One, in general, where you are born largely decides what religion you will follow.
The other is the Bible. Written and rewritten... and just fucked up.

I was born on the Christian side of the border planet so my main argument against the Abraham god is.. "This is your plan, really???!!!" 

Fked up piece of work, that guy and his plan. Gonna tell us not to be jealous of our neighbors or we go to hell but he's jealous in the OT like it's goin out of style. God cares whether you get that promotion, or find your keys, but that African baby on the dirt being eyed by vultures? Nahhhh.. 

I guess "hypocrisy" is the main theme chiming my predominant reason for non belief in the Bible /god. I don't claim to know if there IS or ISNT a god. Just that it's definitely not one I've seen being advertised around.

Amongst a great deal of things..  The concept of praying..

Basically the cornerstone of the Abrahamic religions to tell a supposedly all knowing all powerful omnipotent being that he isn't doing his job correctly.  First you start out by telling god how great and awesome he is because he doesn't know that unless you mentally project it into the aether, and then sneak in a few things like "help aunt Judy's cat to stop peeing on the drapes" or "help my brother get a loan for a new car".

(April 17, 2017 at 12:42 am)Kosh Wrote: Amongst a great deal of things..  The concept of praying..

Basically the cornerstone of the Abrahamic religions to tell a supposedly all knowing all powerful omnipotent being that he isn't doing his job correctly.  First you start out by telling god how great and awesome he is because he doesn't know that unless you mentally project it into the aether, and then sneak in a few things like "help aunt Judy's cat to stop peeing on the drapes" or "help my brother get a loan for a new car".

There's just so many facets of why this belief system is so fucked up, you reminded me of exhibit #1! 

He sees you when you're sleeping.. he knows when you're awake. He knows if you've thought bad or good, so be good and beg for forgiveness for things you inherently do, or you'll burn for all eternity! 

Ps. God will forgive you if you do it. So you can do it. Just make sure to ask for forgiveness before he shows up and everyone starts floating into the air or rising out of their graves! 

Hey Roneedee Zombies indeed, eh?

I enjoy the argument that if there is a god, it is almost certainly not the god of the Bible or Quran. The inconsistencies, contradictions, logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies contained in most holy books are reason enough for us to begin to realize that if there is an intelligent creator, it is almost certainly not one depicted by any group of humans, no matter how holy or sacred they claim themselves or their doctrines to be.

And even then, why god? Where does the idea of god come from? Out of thin air? No. It is quite clearly a psychological projection that came from humans who knew almost nothing about how the world, sun, stars and moon work. We still don't know everything, but we now have science to help us understand the world around us. All they had before was some psychological manifestation of themselves to look to for an explanation. I know my fellow AFers who identify themselves as Christians love these types of bullet point arguments, as they use them all the time. It goes like this...

1. I am a sentient being living on this earth
2. I have the ability to create and design things
3. I have no knowledge of how we as humans arrived here on Earth, I also have no knowledge of how the Earth and all that composes it came to be
4. There must be a sentient being like me that put everything and all of us here

It makes sense to me that "god," even for modern day theists, is just some subconscious manifestation of some higher version of "you." Like a psychological archetype. This is especially interesting to consider when you put it in the context of people claiming to have experiences where they "feel god." And uninformed humans have just been riding with this idea for centuries.

So even if there is any argument for a deist god, it simply comes from lack of knowledge of the origins of Earth and/or the Universe.

Particular to christians?  The argument from hiddenness.  Natural non-resistant non-belief.  I find it useful in that you don't have to argue in the binding assertion.  The hiddenness of god is dogmaticaly accepted by christians...and expressed both in the OT and NT directly and unmistakably.  It's the dark night of the soul, every believing human being has felt it. Even god himself...purportedly, felt it (lol?). It's why you can't find him with a telescope...or any other instrument man has ever invented to detect anything.  Here are some gems:

-and here's a variant of the argument

(April 16, 2017 at 10:18 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 16, 2017 at 9:50 am)Cyberman Wrote: No, you show evidence that the "I or consciousness" SURVIVES "when the body-brain die [sic]". That's the claim on the table, the claim that you and only you are making.

Unfortunately most humans don't understand what causes them to think a after life exists. Even Hindus and Buddhists think of reincarnation as a "forever". What is really going on is purely mental. It is a false perception reflecting our evolutionary drive to move forward and continue. It is a false perception. Really no different than a dog confusing it's own reflection in the mirror as being another separate dog.

Most humans simply don't understand they are finite and the only place we really live on is in the memories of those whom survive us. But we are still finite, and while certainly unique as individuals, we really are nothing more than our brains in motion, very unique fingerprints sure, but still nothing more than physical mass and fuel in motion. 

Reality isn't romantic enough for most humans. Reality isn't romantic or sexy, but it is reality, and by accepting that you can understand the world better.

Enjoy Brian and keep on believing that humans are finite.
Unfortunately the gates of the corral of dogmas are still closed for you.  

---

(April 17, 2017 at 1:46 am)AceBoogie Wrote: I enjoy the argument that if there is a god, it is almost certainly not the god of the Bible or Quran. The inconsistencies, contradictions, logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies contained in most holy books are reason enough for us to begin to realize that if there is an intelligent creator, it is almost certainly not one depicted by any group of humans, no matter how holy or sacred they claim themselves or their doctrines to be.

And even then, why god? Where does the idea of god come from? Out of thin air? No. It is quite clearly a psychological projection that came from humans who knew almost nothing about how the world, sun, stars and moon work. We still don't know everything, but we now have science to help us understand the world around us. All they had before was some psychological manifestation of themselves to look to for an explanation. I know my fellow AFers who identify themselves as Christians love these types of bullet point arguments, as they use them all the time. It goes like this...

1. I am a sentient being living on this earth
2. I have the ability to create and design things
3. I have no knowledge of how we as humans arrived here on Earth, I also have no knowledge of how the Earth and all that composes it came to be
4. There must be a sentient being like me that put everything and all of us here

It makes sense to me that "god," even for modern day theists, is just some subconscious manifestation of some higher version of "you." Like a psychological archetype. This is especially interesting to consider when you put it in the context of people claiming to have experiences where they "feel god." And uninformed humans have just been riding with this idea for centuries.

So even if there is any argument for a deist god, it simply comes from lack of knowledge of the origins of Earth and/or the Universe.

Well, well Ace.  
You seem to know about the origins of the universe.  
Please go ahead and tell us about these origins.  

And please tell us also which one came first.
The matter, the water, the light-energy, the air or the space.  

---

(April 16, 2017 at 7:46 am)emjay Wrote: @Rik. As Lucanus said, if that's the case, how do you explain how brain damage etc effects consciousness?

Been there done that Em.
If you look in the .......What is logic?.....thread at page 22 you will find my answer.  

(April 17, 2017 at 6:09 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 16, 2017 at 10:18 am)Brian37 Wrote: Unfortunately most humans don't understand what causes them to think a after life exists. Even Hindus and Buddhists think of reincarnation as a "forever". What is really going on is purely mental. It is a false perception reflecting our evolutionary drive to move forward and continue. It is a false perception. Really no different than a dog confusing it's own reflection in the mirror as being another separate dog.

Most humans simply don't understand they are finite and the only place we really live on is in the memories of those whom survive us. But we are still finite, and while certainly unique as individuals, we really are nothing more than our brains in motion, very unique fingerprints sure, but still nothing more than physical mass and fuel in motion. 

Reality isn't romantic enough for most humans. Reality isn't romantic or sexy, but it is reality, and by accepting that you can understand the world better.

Enjoy Brian and keep on believing that humans are finite.
Unfortunately the gates of the corral of dogmas are still closed for you.  

---

(April 17, 2017 at 1:46 am)AceBoogie Wrote: I enjoy the argument that if there is a god, it is almost certainly not the god of the Bible or Quran. The inconsistencies, contradictions, logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies contained in most holy books are reason enough for us to begin to realize that if there is an intelligent creator, it is almost certainly not one depicted by any group of humans, no matter how holy or sacred they claim themselves or their doctrines to be.

And even then, why god? Where does the idea of god come from? Out of thin air? No. It is quite clearly a psychological projection that came from humans who knew almost nothing about how the world, sun, stars and moon work. We still don't know everything, but we now have science to help us understand the world around us. All they had before was some psychological manifestation of themselves to look to for an explanation. I know my fellow AFers who identify themselves as Christians love these types of bullet point arguments, as they use them all the time. It goes like this...

1. I am a sentient being living on this earth
2. I have the ability to create and design things
3. I have no knowledge of how we as humans arrived here on Earth, I also have no knowledge of how the Earth and all that composes it came to be
4. There must be a sentient being like me that put everything and all of us here

It makes sense to me that "god," even for modern day theists, is just some subconscious manifestation of some higher version of "you." Like a psychological archetype. This is especially interesting to consider when you put it in the context of people claiming to have experiences where they "feel god." And uninformed humans have just been riding with this idea for centuries.

So even if there is any argument for a deist god, it simply comes from lack of knowledge of the origins of Earth and/or the Universe.

Well, well Ace.  
You seem to know about the origins of the universe.  
Please go ahead and tell us about these origins.  

And please tell us also which one came first.
The matter, the water, the light-energy, the air or the space.  

---

(April 16, 2017 at 7:46 am)emjay Wrote: @Rik. As Lucanus said, if that's the case, how do you explain how brain damage etc effects consciousness?

Been there done that Em.
If you look in the .......What is logic?.....thread at page 22 you will find my answer.  

You are all talk. I should be quite easy for you if you "know" you are infinite, to prove it. I know I am finite and not willing to get stupid and kill myself over something that is not true. I love how believers drone on and on and on about how there is an afterlife, yet none of them want to prove it. I am not heartless, I am glad they don't, but it does demonstrate their horrible logic.

"THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE" 

Me, "Ok prove it"

Theist, "NO". 

Sorry, you have no evidence other than lip service. Please don't attempt to prove me wrong.

(April 17, 2017 at 6:44 am)Brian37 Wrote: You are all talk. I should be quite easy for you if you "know" you are infinite, to prove it. I know I am finite and not willing to get stupid and kill myself over something that is not true. I love how believers drone on and on and on about how there is an afterlife, yet none of them want to prove it. I am not heartless, I am glad they don't, but it does demonstrate their horrible logic.

"THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE" 

Me, "Ok prove it"

Theist, "NO". 

Sorry, you have no evidence other than lip service. Please don't attempt to prove me wrong.

NFDEs already proved that there is an afterlife.

Even without NDEs any person with a little bit of imagination would understand that the consciousness
is a build up of hard work therefore it takes many many lives to produce this build up.
From here it is obvious that life goes on and on.  

Only idiots think that the consciousness that we got fall from the sky as per magic.

This thread appears to have pick up a virulent strain and needs to be quarantined.