(April 19, 2017 at 10:55 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(April 19, 2017 at 10:50 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's a near death experience; not "total death experience".

If the brain is alive, and it was proven that it produces drugs at the moment of death, or near death, and hence: the drugs produced indices hallucinations, then it cannot be trusted to tell what was real, and what was a production of the drugs.

Well that's something I think you'll find most people here agree with you on.

I thought I was pretty sharp

(April 19, 2017 at 8:18 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(April 19, 2017 at 6:06 am)Little Rik Wrote: Most people who had an NDE could see their bodies lie or in the casualty of the hospital or where some accident took place that clearly means that the consciousness separate from the body-brain beside

Hardly.  I can see myself in dreams as well, doing all sorts of strange shit, and even in the third person.  Creating a third person perspective of ourselves and our environment is well within the means of our waking or sleeping mind..and, apparently..can happen before, during or after an nde.

Quote:a brain in trouble can not possibly put together an experience clear, sharp and vivid that is remembered after years and years that took place.

-that ought to make you suspicious of nde accounts, if you think it's true..actually.  How -could- a brain in trouble possibly put together an experience clear, sharp and vivid?  Is what's remembered years later actually what happened?

Hmm, a bit of confusion in your post.  
I am the one who said........How CAN a brain in trouble possibly put together an experience clear, sharp and vivid that is remembered after years and years.
The brain can not possibly create that experience.
Therefore it is the consciousness.
Is that more clear now?  

---

(April 19, 2017 at 9:01 am)Brian37 Wrote: The bullshit term "NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE" gives it away, "NEAR" not beyond the window. That isn't after permanent death, thus the word "NEAR". Nobody survives death after that window has closed. If you survive you still had enough in you to come back.

I agree that is a bullshit name or term but for different reasons.
I do not know who gave this name to these experiences.
I personally would have given a different name.
So instead of saying NDEs I would have said......DAREs (Death And Resurrect Experiences).
In this way folks wouldn't wrongly think that the chap never really died.

Quote:NDE's are simply humans false perceptions of their natural brain activity. The brain goes through a shutdown and sometimes you can come out of that shutdown, but after the window has closed BEYOND repair you don't come back.

Under normal circumstances you are correct but these experiences are not normal.
God give these experiences for a valid reason so when there is God intervention the normal goes
down the window to let the supernatural to replace the normal.  

Quote:Hallucinations are your brain dumping out your files due to heavy medication and or hypoxia and that sensation can feel very real, but it is still nothing more than your hallucination. If you spent a lifetime being told bullshit claims of souls and spirits and afterlife, your hallucinations are going to reflect the lives you interacted with, your memories and mix with the fairy tales you swallowed in that time. 

Sure but you are talking about hallucinations given away from a brain in trouble.
They have nothing to do with NDEs which are spiritual experiences felt by the consciousness.

Quote:If you are raised Hindu or Sikh in India  have a NDE in India your "experience" will involve India's superstitions and social norms and will involve your family members and friends who buy into that superstition too. If you are born in Saudi Arabia and raised Sunni Muslim and have a NDE, again, your false perception of a hallucination will involve the superstitions and beliefs of Muslims. If you are born in Tibet and raised Buddhist, and have a "NDE" again, same thing, your false perception will involve your memories of family friends and the superstitions they buy into.

Wrong again Brian.
Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus never engaged in teaching dogmas so by experiencing these teachers
people who had an NDE never got involved in superstitions.
If however they would have experienced religious superstitions then they would have but that is not the case as you can see from the many NDEs experiences.

Quote:BUT none of that is real. It is no different than if really want to believe the covered olives in the dark kitchen on Halloween night are really eyeballs, you will believe it.

Many ex atheists thought in the same way before their NDE.
Now they not only shut up but most of them even teach God to non believers.

Isn't that bizarre Brian?  

(April 19, 2017 at 10:07 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You're a fucking moron.  If the brain is dead then there is no coming back from the experience to tell an NDE you stupid cluck.  That's the contradiction between what you're saying and what happens.  An NDE cannot happen when the brain is dead because then it wouldn't be a NEAR death experience but an ACTUAL death experience.  So no, it doesn't depend upon any "situation" you clueless moron.

Imbecile.    
Read my previous post in which I do explained to Brian how the term NDE is wrong.

Quote:OR it clearly means that they hallucinate seeing their bodies (see here for examples of out-of-body discrepancies).  You BELIEVE that they are actually seeing their bodies from outside of them.  Your 'belief' doesn't count for shit when we have clear evidence that these experiences are generated by the brain itself and have nothing to do with any consciousness separating from the body.  Yours is just a claim that consciousness separates from the body.  You keep making this claim and when asked to back it up you disingenuously point to a website filled with irrelevant NDE accounts and ask us to go digging.  That's bullshit, that's not providing evidence for your claim.  As can be seen from the evidence linked above, OBEs are CLEARLY hallucinations.

Double imbecile.  
You give me evidence that a brain in trouble is able to produce such clear, sharp and vivid experiences and I will cover you in 24 carat gold.  

Quote:Yet another claim without backing.  You've been repeatedly informed that G induced loss of consciousness and also the drug ketamine can produce clear, sharp, and vivid hallucinations which are similar to those experienced in an NDE (here, here, and here).  So you know that it's not only possible, but actual.

Idiot.  
Similar doesn't mean the same.
In those cases the consciousness is forced to open up to allow some bliss.
This is not natural.
It is similar to a masturbation therefore will cause side effect to body and mind.
NDEs instead are natural phenomena and do not produce side effects.

Quote:You just keep repeating the same claims over and over again, and never answer the contrary evidence. It's either because you're a dishonest ass, or because you're too stoopid to learn from experience.  Either way, I don't care.  It's nothing but lying as far as I'm concerned.

If you guys keep on asking the same questions is obvious that I will answer the same thing.
I guess you never thought about that Yog, did you?  

Quote:You go fuck yourself.

Look Yog when you are having personal problems with your partner   please seek counsel advise.
I can't help with that.  

(April 20, 2017 at 10:12 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 19, 2017 at 10:07 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You're a fucking moron.  If the brain is dead then there is no coming back from the experience to tell an NDE you stupid cluck.  That's the contradiction between what you're saying and what happens.  An NDE cannot happen when the brain is dead because then it wouldn't be a NEAR death experience but an ACTUAL death experience.  So no, it doesn't depend upon any "situation" you clueless moron.

Imbecile.    
Read my previous post in which I do explained to Brian how the term NDE is wrong.

Quote:OR it clearly means that they hallucinate seeing their bodies (see here for examples of out-of-body discrepancies).  You BELIEVE that they are actually seeing their bodies from outside of them.  Your 'belief' doesn't count for shit when we have clear evidence that these experiences are generated by the brain itself and have nothing to do with any consciousness separating from the body.  Yours is just a claim that consciousness separates from the body.  You keep making this claim and when asked to back it up you disingenuously point to a website filled with irrelevant NDE accounts and ask us to go digging.  That's bullshit, that's not providing evidence for your claim.  As can be seen from the evidence linked above, OBEs are CLEARLY hallucinations.

Double imbecile.  
You give me evidence that a brain in trouble is able to produce such clear, sharp and vivid experiences and I will cover you in 24 carat gold.  

Quote:Yet another claim without backing.  You've been repeatedly informed that G induced loss of consciousness and also the drug ketamine can produce clear, sharp, and vivid hallucinations which are similar to those experienced in an NDE (here, here, and here).  So you know that it's not only possible, but actual.

Idiot.  
Similar doesn't mean the same.
In those cases the consciousness is forced to open up to allow some bliss.
This is not natural.
It is similar to a masturbation therefore will cause side effect to body and mind.
NDEs instead are natural phenomena and do not produce side effects.

Quote:You just keep repeating the same claims over and over again, and never answer the contrary evidence. It's either because you're a dishonest ass, or because you're too stoopid to learn from experience.  Either way, I don't care.  It's nothing but lying as far as I'm concerned.

If you guys keep on asking the same questions is obvious that I will answer the same thing.
I guess you never thought about that Yog, did you?  

Quote:You go fuck yourself.

Look Yog when you are having personal problems with your partner   please seek counsel advise.
I can't help with that.  

And after all your nonsense posts, it still amounts to you not wanting to face your finite existence. I am sorry it bothers you that there is no more you after you die, but not our baggage you don't want to face that reality.

I live fine knowing I won't be forever. I might fear a prolonged pain sure. I will fear missing my loved ones and friends, but after I am dead, all that fear and pain will not exist. It will feel the same as it did when I didn't exist 4 billion years ago. 

You are your brain in motion, that's it. Once you die beyond the window you stay dead. Your consciousness is your brain in motion. You brain dies no more you.

(April 20, 2017 at 10:19 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 20, 2017 at 10:12 am)Little Rik Wrote: Imbecile.    
Read my previous post in which I do explained to Brian how the term NDE is wrong.





Double imbecile.  
You give me evidence that a brain in trouble is able to produce such clear, sharp and vivid experiences and I will cover you in 24 carat gold.  





Idiot.  
Similar doesn't mean the same.
In those cases the consciousness is forced to open up to allow some bliss.
This is not natural.
It is similar to a masturbation therefore will cause side effect to body and mind.
NDEs instead are natural phenomena and do not produce side effects.




If you guys keep on asking the same questions is obvious that I will answer the same thing.
I guess you never thought about that Yog, did you?  




Look Yog when you are having personal problems with your partner   please seek counsel advise.
I can't help with that.  

And after all your nonsense posts, it still amounts to you not wanting to face your finite existence. I am sorry it bothers you that there is no more you after you die, but not our baggage you don't want to face that reality.

I live fine knowing I won't be forever. I might fear a prolonged pain sure. I will fear missing my loved ones and friends, but after I am dead, all that fear and pain will not exist. It will feel the same as it did when I didn't exist 4 billion years ago. 

You are your brain in motion, that's it. Once you die beyond the window you stay dead. Your consciousness is your brain in motion. You brain dies no more you.

A lot of guessing son.  

Nothing however that has anything to do with evidence.  

(April 20, 2017 at 8:59 am)Little Rik Wrote: Hmm, a bit of confusion in your post.  

The confusion isn;t in my post, lol.

Quote:I am the one who said........How CAN a brain in trouble possibly put together an experience clear, sharp and vivid that is remembered after years and years.
The brain can not possibly create that experience.
Therefore it is the consciousness.
Is that more clear now?  

Yes, you are the one who said that..and if you believe it to be so.....then why do you not also suspect NDE accounts?  If a brain in trouble is not to be trusted...why do you trust the experience of a brain in trouble?

"Brain in trouble says I floated out of my body."
-...........sounds legit....?


Moreover, brain in trouble, it seems..from those nde accounts, does not actually have to -be- in trouble to produce the effect. The perception of the threat is sufficient. People who are not near death, or in any danger at all...but under extreme stress make up a disproportionate amount of nde reports. Why do you believe the brain in trouble, Rik? Why do you believe the brain in trouble that;s so dumb it only -thinks- it's in trouble....that can manufacture these experiences regardless?

On an even more specific scale...why do you trust your troubled brain?

(April 20, 2017 at 10:28 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 20, 2017 at 10:19 am)Brian37 Wrote: And after all your nonsense posts, it still amounts to you not wanting to face your finite existence. I am sorry it bothers you that there is no more you after you die, but not our baggage you don't want to face that reality.

I live fine knowing I won't be forever. I might fear a prolonged pain sure. I will fear missing my loved ones and friends, but after I am dead, all that fear and pain will not exist. It will feel the same as it did when I didn't exist 4 billion years ago. 

You are your brain in motion, that's it. Once you die beyond the window you stay dead. Your consciousness is your brain in motion. You brain dies no more you.

A lot of guessing son.  

Nothing however that has anything to do with evidence.  

Said the hypocrite unwilling to decapitate himself to prove his consciousness is separate from his brain. I am glad you are a hypocrite because I think you'd kill yourself needlessly. Seriously, don't kill yourself to prove a point, because it is a losing argument. 

Your fictional "forever" is an evolutionary false perception that our species make up which is really a mental delusion reflecting the human evolutionary drive to continue.

(April 20, 2017 at 10:12 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 19, 2017 at 10:07 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You're a fucking moron.  If the brain is dead then there is no coming back from the experience to tell an NDE you stupid cluck.  That's the contradiction between what you're saying and what happens.  An NDE cannot happen when the brain is dead because then it wouldn't be a NEAR death experience but an ACTUAL death experience.  So no, it doesn't depend upon any "situation" you clueless moron.

Imbecile.    
Read my previous post in which I do explained to Brian how the term NDE is wrong.

(April 20, 2017 at 8:59 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 19, 2017 at 9:01 am)Brian37 Wrote: The bullshit term "NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE" gives it away, "NEAR" not beyond the window. That isn't after permanent death, thus the word "NEAR". Nobody survives death after that window has closed. If you survive you still had enough in you to come back.

I agree that is a bullshit name or term but for different reasons.
I do not know who gave this name to these experiences.
I personally would have given a different name.
So instead of saying NDEs I would have said......DAREs (Death And Resurrect Experiences).
In this way folks wouldn't wrongly think that the chap never really died.

You're such an idiot.  These people suffer clinical death, the cessation of blood flow and breathing, but not brain death -- the death of the cells of the brain.  There is no resurrection from brain death.  So no, it's named correctly as NEAR death experience.

(April 20, 2017 at 10:12 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:OR it clearly means that they hallucinate seeing their bodies (see here for examples of out-of-body discrepancies).  You BELIEVE that they are actually seeing their bodies from outside of them.  Your 'belief' doesn't count for shit when we have clear evidence that these experiences are generated by the brain itself and have nothing to do with any consciousness separating from the body.  Yours is just a claim that consciousness separates from the body.  You keep making this claim and when asked to back it up you disingenuously point to a website filled with irrelevant NDE accounts and ask us to go digging.  That's bullshit, that's not providing evidence for your claim.  As can be seen from the evidence linked above, OBEs are CLEARLY hallucinations.

Double imbecile.  
You give me evidence that a brain in trouble is able to produce such clear, sharp and vivid experiences and I will cover you in 24 carat gold.  

What in fuckall does that have to do with whether OBEs are hallucinatory or not.  Didn't have an answer, eh?

Regardless, you're the one saying that it's not possible. That's your claim and your burden of proof. So far you've got squat and plenty of counter-evidence in the form of G-LOC and ketamine and anoxia.

"When you have a malfunction in the brain you can not build up a clear, sharp and vivid experience." Little Rik, 4/19/17, "What is logic?"

(April 20, 2017 at 10:12 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:Yet another claim without backing.  You've been repeatedly informed that G induced loss of consciousness and also the drug ketamine can produce clear, sharp, and vivid hallucinations which are similar to those experienced in an NDE (here, here, and here).  So you know that it's not only possible, but actual.

Idiot.  
Similar doesn't mean the same.
In those cases the consciousness is forced to open up to allow some bliss.
This is not natural.
It is similar to a masturbation therefore will cause side effect to body and mind.
NDEs instead are natural phenomena and do not produce side effects.

We've been through this and you didn't have any evidence for it before either.  Picking up on one word and trying to make a feast of it is a chump move, especially when you don't have any evidence.   But look! "Ketamine administered by intravenous injection is capable of reproducing all of the features of the NDE which have been commonly described."  In other words, it's the same.  And your garbage about natural versus unnatural is just that. The question is not whether drugs are bad but whether "clear, sharp and vivid" hallucinations can be duplicated experimentally, and they can.  If a chemical soup in the brain can produce clear, vivid and sharp hallucinations experimentally, then it can also do so naturally.  Your natural versus unnatural complaint is beside the point. (And you're also shifting the goalposts; it wasn't a question of whether the experiences were THE SAME as in an NDE, but whether a 'malfunctioning' brain can produce clear, sharp, and vivid experiences. It can. You failed doubly.)

(April 20, 2017 at 10:35 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(April 20, 2017 at 8:59 am)Little Rik Wrote: Hmm, a bit of confusion in your post.  

The confusion isn;t in my post, lol.

Quote:I am the one who said........How CAN a brain in trouble possibly put together an experience clear, sharp and vivid that is remembered after years and years.
The brain can not possibly create that experience.
Therefore it is the consciousness.
Is that more clear now?  

Yes, you are the one who said that..and if you believe it to be so.....then why do you not also suspect NDE accounts?  If a brain in trouble is not to be trusted...why do you trust the experience of a brain in trouble?

"Brain in trouble says I floated out of my body."
-...........sounds legit....?


Moreover, brain in trouble, it seems..from those nde accounts, does not actually have to -be- in trouble to produce the effect.  The perception of the threat is sufficient.  People who are not near death, or in any danger at all...but under extreme stress make up a disproportionate amount of nde reports.  Why do you believe the brain in trouble, Rik?  Why do you believe the brain in trouble that;s so dumb it only -thinks- it's in trouble....that can manufacture these experiences regardless?

On an even more specific scale...why do you trust your troubled brain?  

More and more confusion Khem.  

Hallucinations are produced by a brain in trouble and of course I do not trust them.
They come and go, they are not clear, sharp and vivid experience and they manifest when the brain is  sick but alive.
NDEs instead they manifest when the brain is off and the consciousness has already separate from the dead brain.