(July 14, 2011 at 11:51 pm)Shell B Wrote: In fact, history tells us that slavery has always been as we view it now, forcing a person to work for you.

Forcing a person to work with you, have sex with you, give birth to your children who are either also forced to work and/or sold to someone else as a slave, forced to fight for you, are physically maimed by you or at your behest... in short, the person has NO rights whatsoever.

The Bible says that you can't beat them so hard they die right away, but if you beat them such that they linger around in agony for a few days before they die, it's okay. There are several instances of women giving their maidservant (woman slave) to their husband who then "came in unto" her followed by a "begat". This is rape... she could not say "no".

I think we'd have to give the bible a lot more credit if we found anything there not of it's time. If perhaps, slavery was forbidden, some kudos there. When have we ever found anything there that could not have been written by somebody to whom a wheelbarrow was emerging technology?

Quote:Forcing a person to work with you, have sex with you, give birth to your children who are either also forced to work and/or sold to someone else as a slave, forced to fight for you, are physically maimed by you or at your behest... in short, the person has NO rights whatsoever.

The muslims call that "marriage," my dear!

(July 16, 2011 at 6:31 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:This is nonsense in relation to external life but obvious wheni seen as refering to those dead on the inside.

Actually, it's pretty much nonsense any way you look at it...like most of the shit attributed to the phony god boy.

You are not open to basic psychology. A person can be an external and an internal slave at the same time. Societal laws refer to external slavery while a conscious appreciation of its connection to inner slavery can lead to inner freedom.

Nothing too complicateed here. It just requires being willing to "know thyself" so as to develop a more realistic perspective of the human condition and what leads to inner freedom.

I know myself just fine, son. It's fucking jesus that you can blow out your ass.

(July 16, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I know myself just fine, son. It's fucking jesus that you can blow out your ass.

What do you have against Jesus

Nick, why do you say your religious views are other? You sound pretty christian to me.

Nick, apply your statement to the verse in question. While you're at it, what gives you the impression that the NT is about our "internal lives" as opposed to our "external lives"?

(late edit) It's ok to be openly christian here btw, you can quote the scriptures which led you to this conclusion.

(July 16, 2011 at 9:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Nick, apply your statement to the verse in question. While you're at it, what gives you the impression that the NT is about our "internal lives" as opposed to our "external lives"?

(late edit) It's ok to be openly christian here btw, you can quote the scriptures which led you to this conclusion.

I presume you are referring to Ephesians 6:

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
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Now compare it to Romans 7

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
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Jesus' description of the "world" is the same as Plato's Cave. This is a condition of inner slavery through psychological blindness. For a person beginning to become aware of the human condition as it exists within them and the world, the question becomes more how to awaken to reality rather than fight shadows on the wall in Plato's cave.

Christianity is the reliigion of slaves. Its devolution into Christrendom or what you define as Christianity in society has devolved it into a religion of power. A Christian has come to experience that they are the wretched man and would rather awaken than fight shadows. A Christian knows they are either a slave to what pins them to the world, or higher influences they cannot understand but can provide the inner light tht leads to conscious inner freecom.

This is similar to the Eastern concept of "attachment." Acquiring a higher, conscious perspective requires help from above. In Christianity this help is called grace

(July 16, 2011 at 11:32 pm)Nick_A Wrote: 5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

Those second two quotes you posted may be referring to spiritual slavery, but if the one above is, then why does it say to obey your earthly masters?

Also, these are the verses preceeding this one.

Quote:6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
6:2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

It goes from telling children to obey to telling slaves to obey. Nowhere is there any indication that these verses mean anything except commanding people to be subservient to those the bible believes you should obey. You are trying to shoehorn this verse into the same context as the other ones, but this one is clearly not talking about 'inner slavery.' It is giving guidelines for how certain people should behave, not spiritual guidance.