The plumber is on the way to help with this guy.

I'm left wondering if you feel that you've somehow answered any of my questions..........

(July 17, 2011 at 9:49 pm)Epimethean Wrote: Christianity IS the cave, Nick. Come out into the light and see that it is so.

You may say this but how do you know. Do you prefer denying or experiencing reality?

"Do You wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself"
-ABBA EVAGRIUS, FOURTH CENTURY


That is the problem. People as a whole do not wish to know themselves, have the conscious experience of oneself and prefer to imagine themselves. Under these circumstances ist is far more satisfying to deny. I admire the brave ones willing to have the conscious experience of themselves.

"Only the descent into the hell of self-knowledge can pave the way to godliness." Kant

It is hell which is why I agree, it is far easier to bask in denial.

Nick, many of us have emerged from that cave. I have a feeling you went in looking for something you needed to confront and got lost.

Solipsism is a lonely business. Have fun with it.

FaithNoMore, you speak of Christians doing this or that but have you ever met a Christian? My gut feeling is that you have only associated with representatives of various expressions of Christendom or man made Christianity.

A Christian is one who follows the precepts of Christ. A Pre-Christian is one who is attracted to Christianity but unable to be one. A non-Christian simply doesn't care.

Would you say an MD is someone declaring themselves a doctor? No, we would agree that an MD is able to be one. A pre-doctor or student of medicine is not able to be one yet, and a non doctor doesn't care. It is the same idea.

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(July 17, 2011 at 10:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm left wondering if you feel that you've somehow answered any of my questions..........

You said:

I'm not entirely sure what you think I asked you for Nick.....even after reading your interpretation (and it is your interpretation) of that verse..I still fail to see how obeying your earthly master (apparently, to you, the material world) would be the thing to do? We shouldn't fight the shadows in the cave, even though these shadows are the manifest reality of the spiritual bonds holding us?

Christianity is about consciously learning the world and our relationship to it with the help of the spirit. Prestige is acquired by battling the world. A person is a slave to the world through their emotions. Emotional freedom leads to freedom from inner slavery. But it is so much more fun to bask in negative emotions so inner slavery continues as it is.

The Bible is a guide book to becoming a slave of god. So slavery in the Bible represents that of being a servant to two masters. The mortal, as in true slavery, as in the Bible being used during the slave era in the U.S. as a directive of god that it was righteous and good to enslave blacks because they bore the mark of Cain and as such were like unto animals and had no soul.

Believers, sheep and all that post implies as sacrificial beasts by the will and to the glory of god, are asked to serve the Master;god.

There's an atheist website that speaks to this and other matters in the Bible. Evilbible.com
This passage is relevant to slavery in the Bible.

And this site is simply one of many Christian sponsored sites that commend being a slave to a malevolent master.

Apologists can excuse what is written about slavery in the Bible all they want. However, a god that commands mass murder, genocide, infanticide, matricide, patricide and drowns the whole world and countless people save for one family through which inbreeding was to replenish the earth of new born sinners, can never be said to not command slavery as well.

The Bible's Satan is more humane than is the Bible's god.

(July 17, 2011 at 10:48 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote: The Bible is a guide book to becoming a slave of god. So slavery in the Bible represents that of being a servant to two masters. The mortal, as in true slavery, as in the Bible being used during the slave era in the U.S. as a directive of god that it was righteous and good to enslave blacks because they bore the mark of Cain and as such were like unto animals and had no soul.

Believers, sheep and all that post implies as sacrificial beasts by the will and to the glory of god, are asked to serve the Master;god.

There's an atheist website that speaks to this and other matters in the Bible. Evilbible.com
This passage is relevant to slavery in the Bible.

And this site is simply one of many Christian sponsored sites that commend being a slave to a malevolent master.

Apologists can excuse what is written about slavery in the Bible all they want. However, a god that commands mass murder, genocide, infanticide, matricide, patricide and drowns the whole world and countless people save for one family through which inbreeding was to replenish the earth of new born sinners, can never be said to not command slavery as well.

The Bible's Satan is more humane than is the Bible's god.

You are referring to Judiasm. Christianity doesn't have a personal God. The domain of the Source is outside of time and space. Christianity has the son within the confines of creation and the Spirit.

Okay, so the bible was saying that we should obey our earthly masters, our earthly masters being the fun of basking in negativity?

(July 17, 2011 at 11:07 pm)Nick_A Wrote: You are referring to Judiasm. Christianity doesn't have a personal God. The domain of the Source is outside of time and space. Christianity has the son within the confines of creation and the Spirit.

I'm referring to all three of the Abrahamic traditions. You are wrong. Christianity does have a personal god. "He" speaks in first person throughout the Old Testament. He created humans in his image and likeness.(or our depending upon which OT scripture one reads) He bears human characteristics, including jealousy, wrath, revenge. And he appeared in anthropomorphic form as Jesus.

I don't know what faith you're describing, however it's not that of Christianity.

(July 18, 2011 at 12:54 am)Judas BentHer Wrote:

(July 17, 2011 at 11:07 pm)Nick_A Wrote: You are referring to Judiasm. Christianity doesn't have a personal God. The domain of the Source is outside of time and space. Christianity has the son within the confines of creation and the Spirit.

I'm referring to all three of the Abrahamic traditions. You are wrong. Christianity does have a personal god. "He" speaks in first person throughout the Old Testament. He created humans in his image and likeness.(or our depending upon which OT scripture one reads) He bears human characteristics, including jealousy, wrath, revenge. And he appeared in anthropomorphic form as Jesus.

I don't know what faith you're describing, however it's not that of Christianity.

You are confusing Christendom with Christianity. It is an understandable mistake but a mistake just the same. Actually it was the imposition of the Hebrew God on Christianity as well as Rome imposing Christianity on the empire that created such a quick devolution of Christianity into Christendom within society.