Why does a belief have to constitute any degree of 'truth'? Are you sure?

Some people believe the earth is flat, whilst some believe that a race of lizard people run the earth. Both are demonstrably false and decidedly not random having a body of believers behind them (remarkably), so where is the kernel of truth?

(May 21, 2017 at 5:47 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: Why does a belief have to constitute any degree of 'truth'? Are you sure?

Some people believe the earth is flat, whilst some believe that a race of lizard people run the earth. Both are demonstrably false and decidedly not random having a body of believers behind them (remarkably), so where is the kernel of truth?

I don't know of any real person who believes a race of lizard people run the earth, but the kernel of truth in the belief that the earth is flat is that the surface of the earth actually is flat on the micro level, just not on the macro level. (Incidentally, I don't know of anyone in the last 500 years who believes the earth is flat on a macro level, either).

If something appears a certain way, the appearance is not usually 100% false. What's typically false are the conclusions people jump to from knowing certain truths. (The earth is flat at such and such a place: True. Therefore, the earth is flat into perpetuity: False). We may get a lot of things wrong, but that doesn't always mean it's because we're reasoning from a false premise. I think more often than not, it's because we're reasoning poorly from a true premise.

The kernel of truth on the Lizard People one would be a general lack of surprise if Hillary started peeling off her human rind . . .

One thing I have noticed from hanging out here for a while, and the atheist friends I have in the real world is that they have their minds made up and there is no further room for debate. Atheists often tend to give their trust to authority figures in the mainstream media and Science, which to an extent is fine, but when you question their authority figures, they act like religious people. It usually happens at a young age, so now that they are adults, they still can't get past it while the rest of us have moved forward and now crop dusting those behind us.

Especially everything I've found out about how the real history is being hidden and how the military is involved in psychological warfare to control the masses, people don't want to hear it much less learn about it, because it would crush their paradigm and force them to question their authority, which really is the state, as there is no higher power than the state. Then you learn who is controlling the state, and how they have infiltrated the scientific community to prevent certain information from getting out, we find ourselves in a world where those above the state control the state, academia, the scientific community, and the media. Then those who are not able to look past it, are stuck in a state of control, which as the rest of us realizes and move forward, some of you are being left behind, and refusing to get on the boat.

Forget about religion, I'm talking technology. I've found people here are not willing to even address information unless it's sourced through their authority, which for those in the know are is limiting the flow of information to the masses. Time to wake up from the stasis, and climb the rung of the ladder. The rest of us can see a bit farther over the horizon, and we don't need to rely on those to tell those below what can be seen.

(May 21, 2017 at 5:42 pm)Valyza1 Wrote:

(May 21, 2017 at 5:33 pm)Alex K Wrote: Because the number of possible false claims is so large that a randomly chosen one is almost certainly false. Only evidence changes those odds.

But when people make claims, are they generally choosing from a pool of random claims?  That seems unlikely.  It seems rather that most of the time they are choosing from a pool of claims they actually believe and usually, in [b]order to actually believe in a claim there must at least be some kernel of truth to it[b], which cuts out most random propositions.

Bold in the last paragraph mine.

This is absolutely untrue.

Belief is simply the psychological state in which one accepts a premise or proposition to be true.


When ancient Greeks believed in Zeus, Andromeda, Poseidon, etc, was there a kernel of truth to their beliefs?

Flat earth, geocentrism, 6000 year old earth, Ginn, garden fairies, all beliefs people hold, either in the past or currently, have no kernel of truth.

The truth of a claim is not dependant in any way by, how fervently one believes it, how many people believe it, how long the belief has been around.

The only thing that is critical to a claim, is if the claim can be shown to comport to reality.

Scooby blathering his typical conspiracy "you need to wake up " nonsense. Go back to info wars a circle jerk with the rest of jones cultists. And don't dare lecture us on critical thinking .

(May 21, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Valyza1 Wrote: (Incidentally, I don't know of anyone in the last 500 years who believes the earth is flat on a macro level, either).

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/

Also search on youtube for flat Earth. CoolHardLogic has a great series on flattards, as he calls them.

(May 21, 2017 at 8:03 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: One thing I have noticed from hanging out here for a while, and the atheist friends I have in the real world is that they have their minds made up and there is no further room for debate. Atheists often tend to give their trust to authority figures in the mainstream media and Science, which to an extent is fine, but when you question their authority figures, they act like religious people. It usually happens at a young age, so now that they are adults, they still can't get past it while the rest of us have moved forward and now crop dusting those behind us.

Especially everything I've found out about how the real history is being hidden and how the military is involved in psychological warfare to control the masses, people don't want to hear it much less learn about it, because it would crush their paradigm and force them to question their authority, which really is the state, as there is no higher power than the state. Then you learn who is controlling the state, and how they have infiltrated the scientific community to prevent certain information from getting out, we find ourselves in a world where those above the state control the state, academia, the scientific community, and the media. Then those who are not able to look past it, are stuck in a state of control, which as the rest of us realizes and move forward, some of you are being left behind, and refusing to get on the boat.

Forget about religion, I'm talking technology. I've found people here are not willing to even address information unless it's sourced through their authority, which for those in the know are is limiting the flow of information to the masses. Time to wake up from the stasis, and climb the rung of the ladder. The rest of us can see a bit farther over the horizon, and we don't need to rely on those to tell those below what can be seen.

It's odd because I have very rarely run into an atheist who is this closed minded.

I've encountered many who say, "provide verifiable of your claims and I'll give it serious thought."

But I've encountered many theists who have stated, "Even if the bible is proved to be 100% wrong I'll still believe it!"

Look at the end of the "debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye.

When asked the question, "What would it take to change your mind?", Nye said, "Proof", while Ham stated nothing would change his mind.

And THAT's what blind dogma does to many religious minds.

As for conspiracy stuff, when we ask for evidence we get YouTube videos, claims from anonymous people "who were there", and links to sites that are on par with the Flat Earth Society or the Weekly World News.

(May 21, 2017 at 8:39 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(May 21, 2017 at 8:03 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: One thing I have noticed from hanging out here for a while, and the atheist friends I have in the real world is that they have their minds made up and there is no further room for debate. Atheists often tend to give their trust to authority figures in the mainstream media and Science, which to an extent is fine, but when you question their authority figures, they act like religious people. It usually happens at a young age, so now that they are adults, they still can't get past it while the rest of us have moved forward and now crop dusting those behind us.

Especially everything I've found out about how the real history is being hidden and how the military is involved in psychological warfare to control the masses, people don't want to hear it much less learn about it, because it would crush their paradigm and force them to question their authority, which really is the state, as there is no higher power than the state. Then you learn who is controlling the state, and how they have infiltrated the scientific community to prevent certain information from getting out, we find ourselves in a world where those above the state control the state, academia, the scientific community, and the media. Then those who are not able to look past it, are stuck in a state of control, which as the rest of us realizes and move forward, some of you are being left behind, and refusing to get on the boat.

Forget about religion, I'm talking technology. I've found people here are not willing to even address information unless it's sourced through their authority, which for those in the know are is limiting the flow of information to the masses. Time to wake up from the stasis, and climb the rung of the ladder. The rest of us can see a bit farther over the horizon, and we don't need to rely on those to tell those below what can be seen.

It's odd because I have very rarely run into an atheist who is this closed minded.

I've encountered many who say, "provide verifiable of your claims and I'll give it serious thought."

But I've encountered many theists who have stated, "Even if the bible is proved to be 100% wrong I'll still believe it!"

Look at the end of the "debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye.

When asked the question, "What would it take to change your mind?", Nye said, "Proof", while Ham stated nothing would change his mind.

And THAT's what blind dogma does to many religious minds.

As for conspiracy stuff, when we ask for evidence we get YouTube videos, claims from anonymous people "who were there", and links to sites that are on par with the Flat Earth Society or the Weekly World News.

It is a bit strange. I have some friends that will refuse to watch videos I talk about, just like this forum, but they will spend their time playing world of warcraft, or watching sports and fictional movies. They say it doesn't interest them, and never really give me a reason why. I have the feeling they have made up their mind that it must be false, so no further debate is needed, even if the people involved at the highest levels of government are talking about this.

Bill Nye is not someone who has a classified clearance level, and there are many actual scientists that do who I would rather listen to. I feel like he is for children, or adults stuck in a state of extended adolescence. Really I'm not willing to listen to people these days unless they have a clearance level when it comes to certain subjects. After spending time befriending military people, there is no reason to listen to people below a certain level. I'd rather go to the director, not an analyst.

Flat earth is a disinformation psyop meant to distract and muddy the waters.

(May 21, 2017 at 8:48 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(May 21, 2017 at 8:39 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: It's odd because I have very rarely run into an atheist who is this closed minded.

I've encountered many who say, "provide verifiable of your claims and I'll give it serious thought."

But I've encountered many theists who have stated, "Even if the bible is proved to be 100% wrong I'll still believe it!"

Look at the end of the "debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye.

When asked the question, "What would it take to change your mind?", Nye said, "Proof", while Ham stated nothing would change his mind.

And THAT's what blind dogma does to many religious minds.

As for conspiracy stuff, when we ask for evidence we get YouTube videos, claims from anonymous people "who were there", and links to sites that are on par with the Flat Earth Society or the Weekly World News.

It is a bit strange. I have some friends that will refuse to watch videos I talk about, just like this forum, but they will spend their time playing world of warcraft, or watching sports and fictional movies. They say it doesn't interest them, and never really give me a reason why. I have the feeling they have made up their mind that it must be false, so no further debate is needed, even if the people involved at the highest levels of government are talking about this.

Bill Nye is not someone who has a classified clearance level, and there are many actual scientists that do who I would rather listen to. I feel like he is for children, or adults stuck in a state of extended adolescence. Really I'm not willing to listen to people these days unless they have a clearance level.

Flat earth is a disinformation psyop meant to distract and muddy the waters.

That's what *they* want you to think...