(May 24, 2017 at 12:16 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(May 24, 2017 at 9:07 am)alpha male Wrote: As they say, lies, damned lies, and statistics. Rhythm likes to say this too but I've never seen him link to the data and I didn't feel like looking it up myself. The article you link to links to this:
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi...rror_05sum

For purposes of your statistic, when the Animal Liberation Front commits an act of vandalism, that counts as one incident. The 9/11 attacks that killed 2,972 people also count as...one incident.

Don't you think you're mixing apples and oranges with this statistic?

Let's look at the deaths and injuries in the report.

Deaths
Total: 3,178
Muslim: 2,984, or 94%

Injuries
Total: 14,038
Muslim: 13,051, or 93%

I actually meant to look that up last night, because I started thinking, yeah but the guy with knife kills almost no one, or like one or two (and the ones with guns like the guy in that church killed 15 or 20) but the Islamic guys tend to use bigger guns, cars, and knives and sacrifice themselves int the act to kill as many as possible.

I don't actually see the totals you quoted here (and it seems to include 9/11) in the link you provided, but it makes sense.  The second largest attack in the link you provided was Timothy McVeigh.


I also see that this is all entirely very recent.

People killed by which groups of terrorists

So it seems odd to berate people who wish to discuss the cause.  It wasn't like Islam was doing this in large numbers 20 years ago.  Shouldn't we discuss what changed, so we can figure out how to change it BACK?

Nope for alpha

"Muslims evil " is the only problem therefore going after Muslims is the only answer

Also take anything he links with a massive grain of salt

(May 24, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(May 24, 2017 at 12:16 pm)Aroura Wrote: I actually meant to look that up last night, because I started thinking, yeah but the guy with knife kills almost no one, or like one or two (and the ones with guns like the guy in that church killed 15 or 20) but the Islamic guys tend to use bigger guns, cars, and knives and sacrifice themselves int the act to kill as many as possible.

I don't actually see the totals you quoted here (and it seems to include 9/11) in the link you provided, but it makes sense.  The second largest attack in the link you provided was Timothy McVeigh.


I also see that this is all entirely very recent.

People killed by which groups of terrorists

So it seems odd to berate people who wish to discuss the cause.  It wasn't like Islam was doing this in large numbers 20 years ago.  Shouldn't we discuss what changed, so we can figure out how to change it BACK?

Nope for alpha

"Muslims evil " is the only problem therefore going after Muslims is the only answer

Also take anything he links with a massive grain of salt

Do you mean like when he links to the FBI data base, rather than the huffington post? Lulzwat? The stat about more non-Muslims committing terrorism is bullshit because, like he said, it doesn't take whether or not that 'terrorism' even caused fatalities or even injuries. When it comes to causing death and mayham, it's clearly a Muslim problem. Terrorism isn't even the biggiest problem with Islam, the fact that they've ruined the lives of 1/4 of the world by turning them into mindless religious zombies in the big picture problem. They are also major players in 9 out of the 10 deadliest conflicts going on in the world. [sarcasm] Nope, no problem here. You know, the crusades and every decade an abortion clinic gets bombed and stuff....... [/sarcasm]

(May 24, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Also take anything he links with a massive grain of salt

Even when it is a trustworthy and official source like the FBI? Come on dude, you're refusing to acknowledge that radical Islam is a much bigger problem than far-right or Christian terrorism, both of which seem to be extremely low in comparison.

But hey, you keep telling yourself that. When the next attack happens, you'll be in the thread claiming it might be white supremacists or something and you will be disappointed every time.

As I said earlier, I don't accept the apologism that is thrown out after every barbaric Islamist act. I call BS.

To me, this is no different than when the gun lobby refuses to discuss gun control after every mass shooting. They think it's too emotional a time to start lumping in the good gun owners with the bad gun owners who just committed a crime. They're full of shit.

Similarly, after every Islamic massacre in the west we get the same reasoning. Let's not call out Islam right now because that's unfair to the peaceful Muslims and we MUST remind christians that their religion sucks too. Let's remind everyone of the crusades, western crimes, poverty etc.. so that moderate Muslims will know there is nothing wrong with Islam. Let's try to convince everyone that religions are all the same so as not to offend anyone. I say bullshit to all this.

In no way would I advocate any kind of retaliatory violence, but this IS the right time to remind our moderate Muslim friends that Islam is a piece of shit religion. I have good friends and family who are Catholic and I have no problem telling them that IMO the Catholic church is the most corrupt organization the world has ever seen and we still remain friends. They're adults and if they can't take that kind of criticism of their faith (esp after a revelation of a church crime for example) then they should consider dropping their religion which is the point of the criticism. Muslims are not dainty flowers that need to be protected by the members of atheist forums.  They're actual people who need to hear the results of what faith in a murderer, rapist and pedophile can lead to.

(May 24, 2017 at 4:55 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

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(May 24, 2017 at 1:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Referring back to my post which I believe got this started (let me know if I'm wrong) it was to point out that all religions have this flaw. If it's done by the religious or in religions/gods name then religion is to blame (at least in part, there may be other motives), I don't care what religion. And if christians think they occupy some moral higher ground just because atrocities done in their name are not current, they are incorrect.

 

The morality of the whole world was totally different 1000 years ago. The most fundamentalist Christian alive today would be burned alive as a too liberal heretic back then. The Phelps clan would be the most liberal Christians alive in the middle ages. The Crusades were ended by the Mongol invasions of the middle east, which didn't have anything to do with Christianity or Islam and were way more brutal. A thousand times the death toll of the Crusades. So of course it's different. Christian terrorism basically doesn't exist in the western world. Complaining about problems within western Christianity (there are Christian terrorists in Africa that are terrible, but nobody knows because it's Africa) when Islam is right there, is like complaining that your neighbor has a super annoying dog while your house is burning down.

Did you read the link in post #78? Less than 100 yrs. More dead by a long shot.

(May 23, 2017 at 4:21 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 12:47 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The very specific, extreme, minority version of his religion (assuming it was radical Islam). Most Muslims are appalled by this, I am sure.

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And no disrespect to you MH, but I also find it extremely annoying and irrelevant when people shove the crusades in my face (which happened 1000 years ago) every time a radical Islamist does his thing. Happens every time.

Just making the point of extremes the religious will go to. Why does the number of years ago matter? It's both done in the name of religion. 1000 years ago was your religions time, this appears to be theirs. I hope their time fades quickly.

Edit: If you'd like something in the 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_c...e_violence

I wasn't replying to that point. I was replying to your point about the crusades. If you want to concede that point, then you are welcome to. I assumed that you wanted to discuss or at least defend it though rather then change the subject.

(May 24, 2017 at 6:27 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 4:21 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Just making the point of extremes the religious will go to. Why does the number of years ago matter? It's both done in the name of religion. 1000 years ago was your religions time, this appears to be theirs. I hope their time fades quickly.

Edit: If you'd like something in the 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_c...e_violence

I wasn't replying to that point. I was replying to your point about the crusades.  If you want to concede that point, then you are welcome to. I assumed that you wanted to discuss it though.

Most are aware of the crusades, not so much the Ustase and the church.

If you look at the link I provided, most years there is more danger from separatists than Muslims. however, near the end of Bush's fiasco in office, there was a huge spike in islamic terrorism, and we are seeing that after Obama's failed middle eastern shit, too.

If you look at blocks of years (like from 2009 to 20014), there are far more deaths attributed to Islam than other groups, but when Islam gets back into the picture (2007 and 8, 2015 and on) they kill so many people so quickly they overcome huge blocks of previous years.

It's really scary, and undeniably horrible. What do we propose as a solution? Trying to shut them down with war seems to only make the problem worse.

(May 24, 2017 at 6:29 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(May 24, 2017 at 6:27 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: I wasn't replying to that point. I was replying to your point about the crusades.  If you want to concede that point, then you are welcome to. I assumed that you wanted to discuss it though.

Most are aware of the crusades, not so much the Ustase and the church.

Yeah, it's interesting and I'm sure to read about it. But my point is that what happened in the crusades is totally irrelevant to Christianity and how it relates to terrorism today, because the morality of the world was so different back then. So bringing up the crusades is pointless and irking. You can reply to it and defend bringing up the crusades in order to defend Islamic terrorism, or you can change the topic and concede the point that bringing up the crusades every time Muslim shitballs today do something (and terrorism in the west is the least of it, considering there are hundreds of thousands of dead in Syria.)  is stupid.

There are actually good examples of Christian terrorism that happens today, but it happens in Africa, so nobody talks about it.

(May 24, 2017 at 6:31 pm)Aroura Wrote: If you look at the link I provided, most years there is more danger from separatists than Muslims.  however, near the end of Bush's fiasco in office, there was a huge spike in islamic terrorism, and we are seeing that after Obama's failed middle eastern shit, too.

If you look at blocks of years (like from 2009 to 20014), there are far more deaths attributed to Islam than other groups, but when Islam gets back into the picture (2007 and 8, 2015 and on) they kill so many people so quickly they overcome huge blocks of previous years.

It's really scary, and undeniably horrible.  What do we propose as a solution?  Trying to shut them down with war seems to only make the problem worse.

The ignorance required to revel in killing others can only be combated with education.
Education takes a long time... and no one wants to propose a long term project for such a pressing problem.

Also, many Muslims would argue that the Madrasa gives them all the education they need.

On the other hand, these Muslims that are causing trouble in Europe seem to have been born in Europe... where education should not be such a great issue... however, the angst-ridden teen is and always will be an easy target for ruthless people who wish to exploit gullibility and, in spite of school-education, many feel/are inept at it, becoming ignorant... that ignorance is also exploitable.

Religion needs to be handled, not as something that needs all the respect it can have, but as a cultural phenomenon and its outcomes need to be shown to kids at an early age... say, around 10yo... both the good and the bad and how the seemingly good intentions lead to bad results.
It's the same for all religions... just show enough examples, also from current religions.

But this takes guts and goes against the grain of political correctness and "respect" for people's beliefs. It seems that pointing out historical events is disrespectful... -.-'