(May 26, 2017 at 9:56 am)alpha male Wrote:

(May 26, 2017 at 9:40 am)Brian37 Wrote: You, "Get rid of them all"

That you need to set up a straw man of my position should tell you something.

Should be:

Me: "Don't let people in from certain countries known to produce more terrorists than other countries."

That's common sense. You guys employ the same principal at the personal level. You don't just leave your doors open and indiscriminately let people in. The odds of a bad outcome would be too high. But, at the national level, you're willing to play the odds, so you can feel good about yourself and virtue signal.

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(May 26, 2017 at 9:50 am)pocaracas Wrote: How many children die in cars every year?
I don't see the parents of those children calling for a ban on cars! I don't hear high government officials proposing such a ban!

As I said earlier, the fact that there are necessary risks in life doesn't mean that one must indiscriminately accept unnecessary risks. That's ridiculous.

No straw man. If you are for Trump's all out Muslim ban then you ARE supporting fear and xenophobia. If you are not advocating "get rid of them all" your posts here don't seem to reflect that.

Stop trying to mask your bullshit paranoia with watered down language, "unnecessary risks".

If you are for all out bans on an entire religion, regardless if even if that individual hasn't been violent, you are arguing against a label, not advocating reducing "unnecessary risks".

When you add up all the violent crimes, such as domestic murder, robbery, rape, assault and murder in general, the vast majority of violent criminals ARE BORN HERE.

Now again, no, Muslims or Mexicans for that matter. I am not going to loose my empathy for my fellow humans who are non violent. I would deport your childish fearful ass before I would deport anyone who has not been violent. I would also rather have that Pakistani Muslim who Taxed all those non Muslim girls home for FREE as my neighbor and NOT YOU.

But if you want to keep talking like FRANK BURNS from MASH keep it up, we will keep treating you like the childish brat you are acting like.

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You really piss me off.

I have been on line for 16 years. I have conversed with Arabs who fled the east online, and even many who still live in fear of their own governments even today.

Those are HUMAN BEINGS to me, not my enemies. Your bullshit is to assume guilt before someone does something.

It is one thing to attack a claim or a book. It is also one thing to go after violent people. I am fine with those things.

But it is NOT ok to be a fucking dick to someone before they've given you a reason to fear that individual.

If you fail to see that you will become the very thing you say you don't want to become.

This didn't happen in America, and the perpetrator was a citizen in the country where he lived.

(May 26, 2017 at 10:04 am)alpha male Wrote: Because there obviously is.

LOL, if you say so, it must be so.   

Quote:No, I'm not advocating sanctions.

OFC you are, that's what a country specific or religion specific immigration ban is........call it happy fun times for whitey if you like, won't change a thing.

Quote:That would imply that people in other countries have a right to live in the U.S., and I'm trying to take that away. They don't have that right. It's a privilege that the US can offer as it pleases.

Citizens OTOH do have a right to be here.

They have a justly constrained right.  Their rights are no more compelling if the subject is their potential terrorism than the non-rights of non-citizens (who do, btw, actually have rights here...lol).  If it's worthwhile to sanction an entire country or religion for a hypothetical future offense then it's equally worthwhile to do so in the event that those perpetrators are citizens..which they very likely will be, as you know.  If it's worthwhile to sanction an entire country or religion for some past offense, thewn it;s equally worthwhile to do so in the event that the demographic in question is american....which, again, it is...and again..you already know.

Quote:Your consistency is the problem. We have apples and oranges, and you want to treat them all as apples.

Did you consult the magic hateball for that one, or lean on your mind reading abilities? Meanwhile..half a breath later.......

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Quote:No, treat every person in the world as having the rights of an American citizen is the new common sense, or at least will be if the left has its way.

Here you defend the lack of consistency you project onto others by imagining shit...again. Though, this one..I have to ask.....is there something wrong with that? Isn't that the ideological hope of the US, that everyone will one day enjoy the same rights we do....? Do you really want to take issue with that, real or imagined?

Quote:The common sense for a long time has been that citizens of a country have rights which non-citizens don't have. I don't know why that's so difficult for you to grasp.

Why would it be? In any case, we've gone from an admission of abject fear, to a rationalization regarding risk..to some bullshit about rights. Focus?

(May 26, 2017 at 9:59 am)Khemikal Wrote: Keep the americans out of america is the new common sense. 

Is it truly an error americans should stay there. They can also bomb the shit out and fight wars there. Kid country. If you wish to wage war, the capital of portugal is frankfurt. Home of sausage.

(May 26, 2017 at 10:28 am)Shell B Wrote: This didn't happen in America, and the perpetrator was a citizen in the country where he lived.

I know that, but not the point. I get that same argument here too.

Our mass shooters have been a majority BORN HERE. Roof was not a Muslim, the Newtown shooter was not a Muslim, the theater shooter was not a Muslim, the Colimbine killers also not Muslim. McVeigh was not a Muslim, Eric Rudolf was not a Muslim, neither was the UniBomber. Nor are our Christian abortion clinic shooter.bombers.

I understand the fear, nobody wants those things to happen, but even in Europe outside say a couple of countries, most of Europe from what I see, is not reacting by falling for xenophobic hyper nationalism either.

France just bitch slapped their right wing nationalist candidate. 

My point is there is a way to combat terrorists and a way not to, fear and becoming more paranoid and more closed is not the right reaction.

Most of these kids simply are reacting to not having the ability to fit in. It does not excuse their actions, but at the same time they also don't constitute the majority of migrants, and even this guy was raised in the UK.

Even our Boston bomber, while he hid behind religion, and used it as an excuse, the real reason seems to point to the fact he lost is kick boxing licence over a domestic violence report. 

I think instead of living in fear, what we can do is create economic conditions and opportunities and foster more inclusion. I don't mean calls for no blasphemy, but just the idea that fear does not help.

(May 26, 2017 at 10:30 am)Khemikal Wrote: Why would it be?  In any case, we've gone from an admission of abject fear,

Fear, yes - nail bombs aimed at children should cause some fear in any sane person. "Abject" fear, no. Why do you need to spin it 

Quote:to a rationalization regarding risk..

That's been what my opponents have been doing. You have greater risk of being harmed by an American than by an immigrant.  I agree - the obvious point is that Americans have a right to be here. I have no choice but to live with them. We can accept or reject foreigners. We don't have that option with citizens.

Quote:to some bullshit about rights.  

It's not bullshit to say that Americans have a right to live in America that non-citizens don't have. Why do you claim that it is?

19 dead and 50 injured in Manchester.

Obviously that's awful for each and every one of those people and all the family and friends of those people and all people mentally scarred by it too.... Every person is their own little world. It's truly tragic.

But people definitely exaggerate the problem of terrorism when there are millions all over the world starving to death.

Hell, there's 2.55 million people in Manchester.... 19 died.... far more people die every year in Manchester of car crashes. That already implies that cars alone ruin far more lives than terrorism does.

Still awful of course. But I wish more money went into tackling bigger problems like the thousands of drunk drivers running over people and the thousands of young homeless people living on the streets rather than anomalies like this.

We get batshit crazy people bombing people and killing a few people every now and then. Anyone who passionately genuinely believes in the Koran's statements of "Kill the unbelievers" is going to be driven to commit horrific acts like this if they have the means to do so. In a world with people believing in religions as retarded as Islam... shit like this is going to happen, unfortunately.

America just elected Trump. Both houses of Congress are under Republican control. 25 states are under full Republican control, as opposed to 6 Democratic (4 if you don't count tie breakers).

So...why would you want immigrants to come here? Shouldn't you want Europe to absorb them all?

The Boston Marathon bomber was 100% a radical religious terrorist. He wasn't hiding behind his religion as a reason. It was the reason. I'm not about banning people from certain countries that need refuge the most, but I'm also not going to excuse Islam, especially for that. It happened in my backyard. Boston's my city. I'm happy to welcome any Muslim here, but I'm not ever going to give their religion a pass when it results in children being murdered on our streets by jihadists.

(May 26, 2017 at 10:49 am)alpha male Wrote:

(May 26, 2017 at 10:30 am)Khemikal Wrote: Why would it be?  In any case, we've gone from an admission of abject fear,

Fear, yes - nail bombs aimed at children should cause some fear in any sane person. "Abject" fear, no. Why do you need to spin it 

Quote:to a rationalization regarding risk..

That's been what my opponents have been doing. You have greater risk of being harmed by an American than by an immigrant.  I agree - the obvious point is that Americans have a right to be here. I have no choice but to live with them. We can accept or reject foreigners. We don't have that option with citizens.

Quote:to some bullshit about rights.  

It's not bullshit to say that Americans have a right to live in America that non-citizens don't have. Why do you claim that it is?

Nope sorry, your talk is bullshit. How many people do you KNOW in person, who have fled crime and poverty or war? My guess is NONE, otherwise you wouldn't be making such insensitive arguments. AND AGAIN, the sicko in Manchester was a LEGAL citizen.

During WW2 America had the same bullshit Xenophobia towards mostly legal Japanese migrants. George Takei of Star Trek fame is a child of Japanese migrants and he lived AS A CHILD in a internment camp, which were hell holes, and what was his family's crime" NONE other than their race.

America not only put them in these inhuman conditions, but on top of that our government STOLE their property and did not even give most of it back after the war ended.

NO I REFUSE TO live in a nation that repeats sick shit like that. It is easy to vilify anyone when you are not living in their shoes.

It is bad enough America did that, but the west does not need to repeat sick shit like that, not America not Europe.

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(May 26, 2017 at 11:01 am)Shell B Wrote: The Boston Marathon bomber was 100% a radical religious terrorist. He wasn't hiding behind his religion as a reason. It was the reason. I'm not about banning people from certain countries that need refuge the most, but I'm also not going to excuse Islam, especially for that. It happened in my backyard. Boston's my city. I'm happy to welcome any Muslim here, but I'm not ever going to give their religion a pass when it results in children being murdered on our streets by jihadists.

Yes he was radicalized and yes he did use religion for his justification, I am not disagreeing with that. But the trigger was his losing his kick boxing licence. 

But yea, I agree no religion deserves to be criticism or blasphemy free. 

I would argue if someone had seen the signs, either inside the Muslim community or outside maybe someone could have at least stopped his domestic abuse, but we also have that here too. Maybe if someone had said to him "Yea you made a mistake, but here learn from it, but you don't get to take it out on others" 

I don't think even with domestic crime we do enough to create economic and emotional stability. 

I would most certainly welcome someone like Malala here. I would at the same time tell her, yes while I may like you, I will not stop pointing out the flaws of your book or the others who use it to justify violence.

I agree, if you come here shouting "I hate the west, I hate Christians, I have the right to dominate you" then I am going to start paying attention to you the individual and sure, I'd want you deported. 

But, if you are NOT calling for violence no, I am not going to assume your guilt. 

But we also have a far right here that has sects and orgs that promote sick shit like targeting liberals or abortion clinks and blacks. 

My only point is no matter what you are fighting, which is fine, we cannot and should not lose our sense of humanity for all the people who don't advocate those things.

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I do have a question though, for the Jihadist terrorists, after one of your friends blow something up, do you celebrate with champagne bottles with explosives strapped around them? I ask because you do know to make the cork pop you don't need the explosive, just shake the bottle.