(June 1, 2017 at 3:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, and I'm not really arguing any point with you, only noticing that thios very darkness is what you seek to avoid by squeezing the god lemon.  If there were no god...you'd just cease to exist.  You're hoping for more (in fact you're sure of it).

It's no longer hope, I seen and experienced all I need to know what is coming. What this life for me now is preparing for what is to come.

Quote:  At the same time...some part of you probably fears gods judgement for this and that.

I fear God. His judgement was something Christ had to condend with on my behalf.

Quote: At least sometime.  It;s a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario with respect to the prospect of deaths difficulty, in your case.

actually is only dammed if you do nothing.

Quote:It;s just that none of that, absolutely none of it..is going on in -my- head.

which is why your able to lay it out so well. because you've given no thought to any of this :thumbsup:

Meanwhile I only think about this stuff when one of your 'contented' peers asks a question like what started this thread.

Quote:Yeah, that hell you describe as nothingness, not demons poking people with sticks.

That nothingness was Hell fire sport. It was creation/matter being consumed by.. antimatter/oppsite of creation. Everyone was in pain including the demons and satan. Hell is not satan's realm this world will be if not already is.

 

Quote:So, again, no point in arguing, just making an observation. You want to avoid that.

Yes I did and have made the necessary steps in order for that not to happen.

Quote:  There are two ways to end up like that..god existing -or- not existing, but only one way to end up in heaven...god existing and letting you in.

There is a long and winding road between death and oblivion that goes through Hell. Remember I only made is as far as the gates and damn near lost my mind. The torment is not forever as the bible only describes satan having been given that 'reward.' however I can only imagine a just God intentionally prolonging our stay in hell in direct accordance with how evil we were. For example I would think Hitler's stay in Hell would be for far longer than one of you dbags who's biggest sin is not being able to leave another boy's b-hole alone. And again I don't know if the elements of our soul remain but consciousness or is completely consumed or if we are just consumed/obliterated. The difference being the blissful unawareness of anything, and some part of your being smoldering forever.

eaning I had a personal sense of my higher thought processes being lost to insanity and then nothing, and yet a part of me remained. the animalistic primitive reactionary side remained. To be punished further to be consumed/obliterated idk. That was when I was pull out of there.

Quote:Cool story?  It just doesn't change that fact that I don't feel the way you feel, fear what you fear, or believe what you believe..so your comment regarding ease of death simply doesn't apply to me.  None of the necessary conditions are true, of me...no matter how true they may be of you.

But again fear is not rational. so then how can you rationally work out how you will feel till you stand before or even get cast into the abyss?
Again I has no fear of hell because I thought the soul had no physical feelings. Therefore I wanted to fight God as I had no fear of Him or Hell.

Quote:Well actually now that I know what to expect and have properly prepared for death I would like to think I should welcome it when it comes for me.
As I have no fear of oblivion nor judgement.

Good luck maintaining that view.

Quote:What judgement day?  What defense.  I doubt that I'll have to inform the lord of creation of anything regarding myself or my life if I ever met the schmuck.  He should already know, being the lord of creation and whatnot.  There's nothing I -can- do to effect that judgement, or trick that god..or whatever the hell it is you think atheists are planning on doing....the thought having crossed your own christ-addled mind?  

The defense isn't for him, it's for you.
It is like in mat 5 "Lord, Lord didn't we do abc/xyz for you???"

Quote:Okay?  And?  What I;ve been trying to explain to you..is that no amount of any of these stories being true has an effect on me or my position....so no amount of testimonials, from you, is going to speak to anything that would apply to me.  



Again now, I've faced both.

what when have you faced anything? discussing how to slay a dragon is not facing and slaying the dragon.

Quote: I know where I stand and what I believe.

Again your untested, so how can you with a modicum of truth pretend to know where you stand or what you believe.

Quote:There is no fear.

Again until you are stood before the pit how can you say you will know no fear?

Quote:Hey, we finally made it to the important part, describing all the ways that drich is holier than khem.  Well....no shit?  You;re kind of the believer of the bunch, right?

[quote]
Sure, fear can make people do strange things.  Is that how the god of love and mercy plans to bring me to the fold?  Scare me into doing what it wants..like some common waterboarder?  

He is my God of mercy, to you He is the God of wrath and righteousness.
Mercy because He has given me a pass on the wrath.

Quote:Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Matthew 22:37.

It seems to me that this definition of Free Will is completely compatible with determinism and fate and God predetermining everything you do.

I.e. it's not the free will most people believe in. It's the compatabilist version. Basically it's a mere labelling of ordinary human will. The Bible is saying that the ordinary willpower everyone knows they have is "free will" merely because we can do what we want. Even though what we want is determined by God.

So the Bible doesn't really support free will.

(June 2, 2017 at 10:38 am)Drich Wrote: It's no longer hope, I seen and experienced all I need to know what is coming. What this life for me now is preparing for what is to come.

And?  What does that have to do with me, what I fear, or why I do what I do?  Nothing.  

Quote:I fear God. His judgement was something Christ had to condend with on my behalf.

Good for you?  I don't.

Quote:actually is only dammed if you do nothing.

Sure, okay.  Whatever's convenient for you at any point.  

Quote:  which is why your able to lay it out so well. because you've given no thought to any of this :thumbsup:

Meanwhile I only think about this stuff when one of your 'contented' peers asks a question like what started this thread.

I already -told- you I don't give this shit the time of day..that's -why- you're wrong about the relative ease or difficulty of death, in my case. 

Quote:That nothingness was Hell fire sport. It was creation/matter being consumed by.. antimatter/oppsite of creation. Everyone was in pain including the demons and satan. Hell is not satan's realm this world will be if not already is.

Oh ofc, hell is whatever you need it to be at this juncture in the convo and definitely not what you said it was before.  Look, I know that I'm dealing with a liar for christ, and there's no need to argue these points anyway.  Okay, hell is demons poking people after all.  And?  Doesn't change anything about my position on the matter.  

Quote:Yes I did and have made the necessary steps in order for that not to happen.

Okay.  I didn't, won't, and can't..hell, I don't even care.  That's my entire point

Quote:There is a long and winding road between death and oblivion that goes through Hell. Remember I only made is as far as the gates and damn near lost my mind. The torment is not forever as the bible only describes satan having been given that 'reward.' however I can only imagine a just God intentionally prolonging our stay in hell in direct accordance with how evil we were. For example I would think Hitler's stay in Hell would be for far longer than one of you dbags who's biggest sin is not being able to leave another boy's b-hole alone. And again I don't know if the elements of our soul remain but consciousness or is completely consumed or if we are just consumed/obliterated. The difference being the blissful unawareness of anything, and some part of your being smoldering forever.

eaning I had a personal sense of my higher thought processes being lost to insanity and then nothing, and yet a part of me remained. the animalistic primitive reactionary side remained. To be punished further to be consumed/obliterated idk. That was when I was pull out of there.

Do you imagine the devil torturing gay people often?  Why do you think that is? I appreciate that you believe that the cosmos gave you a tourist ticket to hell..but if it did, that still doesn't change anything about me.  

Quote:But again fear is not rational. so then how can you rationally work out how you will feel till you stand before or even get cast into the abyss?
Again I has no fear of hell because I thought the soul had no physical feelings. Therefore I wanted to fight God as I had no fear of Him or Hell.

Like I said, if a god is going to waterboard me to my knees that's what it's going to do.  So?  Why on earth would I want to fight a god, a real god? Doesn't that seem a little bit pointless, like punching a tree?

Quote:Good luck maintaining that view.

I won;t be maintaining anything..regardless.  Either I;m going to simply cease to exist because there is no god and no afterlife..or, depending on what bullshit you've been caught in..I;m going to cease to exist as punishment for my "sins"....or...gods going to torture me into quivering compliance as punishment for my sins.  In each case, I'm no longer there.  

Quote:The defense isn't for him, it's for you.
It is like in mat 5 "Lord, Lord didn't we do abc/xyz for you???"

What defense, simpleton?  I don't have one, won't be coming up with one, and don't have some sort of secret contigency plan to talk my way out of whatever torture a god has planned.  You must understand how fucking ridiculous that sounds........?  It sounds even more ridiculous to me...because I don't believe what you believe.  Do you understand?

Quote:what when have you faced anything? discussing how to slay a dragon is not facing and slaying the dragon.

You;re actually quoting yourself there...

Quote:Again your untested, so how can you with a modicum of truth pretend to know where you stand or what you believe.

.......those are your words...again...

Quote:Again until you are stood before the pit how can you say you will know no fear?

........and again..............Drich...you're talking to yourself..literally....and bickering with yourself....literally.  Holy....shitballs, lol?  

Quote:He is my God of mercy, to you He is the God of wrath and righteousness.
Mercy because He has given me a pass on the wrath.

No Drich...to me, god is not a god at all, there is no god.  I'm an atheist........
Not that it would matter in the case of your god...since -I- couldn't be a christian either way.

Look, your idea of what atheists will do, or why they do what they do...relies on a person believing the shit you believe...on being a person -like- you. It's absurd to even make the conjecture..since atheists, by definition..don;t believe what you believe..theyre not like you. While you may believe that you;re offering up some sort of sage observation as regards atheists and their plans...you're not doing anything but giving us a window into your own soul...a window which, apparently, you yourself have never peered through...because you're blissfully unaware, while doing it, of what you're doing.

(June 2, 2017 at 10:19 am)JamieB Wrote: Drich 
It makes sense to me why you believe in this invisible God.

What makes you think God is invisible to everyone?

Quote:You sound like you've had some experience with sin, fear of death, you were cast into hell believe it or not. Not, but I see where your coming from.

I'm sure if you wanted to see Hell for yourself God would be happy to oblige you. just ask or if you are so bold as I was dare Him to show you. tell Him you will spit in his eye at your judgement and would be ruling hell inside a week.. then repeat this till he complys with your wish. lest you fear death... lest you fear your trip would be one way... That is what I did before I got to know God.

Quote:God can help focus you away from your own fears and problems, but what your not realizing is you are still afraid and lying to yourself for comfort.

God is not a source of comfort.. maybe at first but once you move past the milk of the word God=Hard work, trials, testing what you think you know and what you think you are. almost non-stop.

Granted the rewards are great when you follow through, but little comfort is money in the bank when you feel like you always in a free fall that you have to will or reason your way out of.

Quote:I did that for years. Sometimes I still do that. Different coping mechanisms work, but God is a distraction from reality. 
Good luck with that sport

That is what I mean by trials.. dealing with real world problems in real time.

You have made a lot of accusation about fear and death. I'd like a citation or reference to something I said that shows I have a fear of death, or are you simply sterotyping/name calling?

You'd like a citation......?  Sometimes I can't decide whether or not there are two or more distinct people posting on your account.  Instinctively, I don't believe that a person could possibly be so self-oblivious....but I guess there's always someone waiting in the wings to prove me wrong on that.

OFC, the other explanation, is that in all your flip flopping for christ you just don't remember what you said last week, last thread, last post....last sentence. Deceit takes a toll on the memory.

Let;s run with it, though...if you believe all this shit about gods and torture and hells...and -you- aren't afraid, why do you find it difficult to understand that -others- aren't afraid? What would be made easier, for anyone, by god not existing? We're already not afraid. You're not afraid...I'm not a afraid.....just what difficulty is there to be reduced?

(June 2, 2017 at 10:38 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 1, 2017 at 3:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, and I'm not really arguing any point with you, only noticing that thios very darkness is what you seek to avoid by squeezing the god lemon.  If there were no god...you'd just cease to exist.  You're hoping for more (in fact you're sure of it).

It's no longer hope, I seen and experienced all I need to know what is coming. What this life for me now is preparing for what is to come.

Quote:  At the same time...some part of you probably fears gods judgement for this and that.

I fear God. His judgement was something Christ had to condend with on my behalf.

Quote: At least sometime.  It;s a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario with respect to the prospect of deaths difficulty, in your case.

actually is only dammed if you do nothing.

Quote:It;s just that none of that, absolutely none of it..is going on in -my- head.

 which is why your able to lay it out so well. because you've given no thought to any of this :thumbsup:

Meanwhile I only think about this stuff when one of your 'contented' peers asks a question like what started this thread.

Quote:Yeah, that hell you describe as nothingness, not demons poking people with sticks.

That nothingness was Hell fire sport. It was creation/matter being consumed by.. antimatter/oppsite of creation. Everyone was in pain including the demons and satan. Hell is not satan's realm this world will be if not already is.

 

Quote:So, again, no point in arguing, just making an observation. You want to avoid that.

Yes I did and have made the necessary steps in order for that not to happen.

Quote:   There are two ways to end up like that..god existing -or- not existing, but only one way to end up in heaven...god existing and letting you in.

There is a long and winding road between death and oblivion that goes through Hell. Remember I only made is as far as the gates and damn near lost my mind. The torment is not forever as the bible only describes satan having been given that 'reward.' however I can only imagine a just God intentionally prolonging our stay in hell in direct accordance with how evil we were. For example I would think Hitler's stay in Hell would be for far longer than one of you dbags who's biggest sin is not being able to leave another boy's b-hole alone. And again I don't know if the elements of our soul remain but consciousness or is completely consumed or if we are just consumed/obliterated. The difference being the blissful unawareness of anything, and some part of your being smoldering forever.

eaning I had a personal sense of my higher thought processes being lost to insanity and then nothing, and yet a part of me remained. the animalistic primitive reactionary side remained. To be punished further to be consumed/obliterated idk. That was when I was pull out of there.

Quote:Cool story?  It just doesn't change that fact that I don't feel the way you feel, fear what you fear, or believe what you believe..so your comment regarding ease of death simply doesn't apply to me.  None of the necessary conditions are true, of me...no matter how true they may be of you.

But again fear is not rational. so then how can you rationally work out how you will feel till you stand before or even get cast into the abyss?
Again I has no fear of hell because I thought the soul had no physical feelings. Therefore I wanted to fight God as I had no fear of Him or Hell.

Quote:Well actually now that I know what to expect and have properly prepared for death I would like to think I should welcome it when it comes for me.
As I have no fear of oblivion nor judgement.

Good luck maintaining that view.

Quote:What judgement day?  What defense.  I doubt that I'll have to inform the lord of creation of anything regarding myself or my life if I ever met the schmuck.  He should already know, being the lord of creation and whatnot.  There's nothing I -can- do to effect that judgement, or trick that god..or whatever the hell it is you think atheists are planning on doing....the thought having crossed your own christ-addled mind?  

The defense isn't for him, it's for you.
It is like in mat 5 "Lord, Lord didn't we do abc/xyz for you???"

Quote:Okay?  And?  What I;ve been trying to explain to you..is that no amount of any of these stories being true has an effect on me or my position....so no amount of testimonials, from you, is going to speak to anything that would apply to me.  



Again now, I've faced both.

what when have you faced anything? discussing how to slay a dragon is not facing and slaying the dragon.

Quote: I know where I stand and what I believe.

Again your untested, so how can you with a modicum of truth pretend to know where you stand or what you believe.

Quote:There is no fear.

Again until you are stood before the pit how can you say you will know no fear?

Quote:Hey, we finally made it to the important part, describing all the ways that drich is holier than khem.  Well....no shit?  You;re kind of the believer of the bunch, right?

Quote:Sure, fear can make people do strange things.  Is that how the god of love and mercy plans to bring me to the fold?  Scare me into doing what it wants..like some common waterboarder?  

He is my God of mercy, to you He is the God of wrath and righteousness.
Mercy because He has given me a pass on the wrath.

The depths that people sink to in their delusions are frightening.

---

(June 2, 2017 at 10:38 am)Drich Wrote:

Quote:There is no fear.

Again until you are stood before the pit how can you say you will know no fear?

He said there IS no fear, moron.

---

(June 2, 2017 at 11:31 am)Khemikal Wrote: You'd like a citation......?  Sometimes I can't decide whether or not there are two or more distinct people posting on your account.  Instinctively, I don't believe that a person could possibly be so self-oblivious....but I guess there's always someone waiting in the wings to prove me wrong on that.

OFC, the other explanation, is that in all your flip flopping for christ you just don't remember what you said last week, last thread, last post....last sentence.  Deceit takes a toll on the memory.

Let;s run with it, though...if you believe all this shit about gods and torture and hells...and -you- aren't afraid, why do you find it difficult to understand that -others- aren't afraid?  What would be made easier, for anyone, by god not existing?  We're already not afraid.  You're not afraid...I'm not a afraid.....just what difficulty is there to be reduced?

He needs to be less not afraid.  It's a contest with this goofball.

LOL< I know...he wants hell to be terrifying enough to scare people into believing in him (oh, excuse me, I mean "god")...but he doesn't want to come off like some sort of trembling pansy..he hates pansies, and all that stuff they do to peoples b-holes.  

It's a fine line to walk.

(June 2, 2017 at 11:12 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(June 2, 2017 at 10:38 am)Drich Wrote: It's no longer hope, I seen and experienced all I need to know what is coming. What this life for me now is preparing for what is to come.

And?  What does that have to do with me, what I fear, or why I do what I do?  Nothing.  

Absolutely nothing. That statement of mine is what your statement should have been if you knew or could speak from the experience of facing fear/death/oblivion through Hell. That is why you do not recognize it nor can apply it to your "this is what I would do and why I think I would not fear.)

Mine is the difference between pulling a gun on someone and deciding whether or not to use it and talking about what you would do in a similar situation.

Quote:Good for you?  I don't.

give it time. I didn't fear God till I understood how real things were either..

Quote:  which is why your able to lay it out so well. because you've given no thought to any of this :thumbsup:

Meanwhile I only think about this stuff when one of your 'contented' peers asks a question like what started this thread.

Quote:I already -told- you I don't give this shit the time of day..that's -why- you're wrong about the relative ease or difficulty of death, in my case. 

That's not true you have at least 2 days worth who time was at least patially dedicated to this very subject, as that is how long you have been challenging me with your pov.

Quote:Oh ofc, hell is whatever you need it to be at this juncture in the convo and definitely not what you said it was before.  Look, I know that I'm dealing with a liar for christ, and there's no need to argue these points anyway.  Okay, hell is demons poking people after all.  And?  Doesn't change anything about my position on the matter.  

check the record moron it hasn't changed in over 4 years. Your understand or laziness to look up what I have said is what has changed. I go into deep description in my orginal Hell thread about how the nothingness of hell is like hot tar, that the reason it is described as fire is because of the emotional/physical response one has when being consumed by this nothingness.. The closest thing we have to describe the nothingness is fire and that is because of the pain panic and fear that it induces to a factor of 10xs what fire is.

Quote:Do you imagine the devil torturing gay people often?  Why do you think that is? I appreciate that you believe that the cosmos gave you a tourist ticket to hell..but if it did, that still doesn't change anything about me.  

What are you talking about? I just told you satan in an inmate in hell not the warden

Quote:Like I said, if a god is going to waterboard me to my knees that's what it's going to do.  So?  Why on earth would I want to fight a god, a real god?  Doesn't that seem a little bit pointless, like punching a tree?

Well good! Seems like your spirit is broken. the question is, is it broken enough to simply follow through and repent. After all if we are working under the conclusion God is in control and fighting Him is like punching a tree then why not repent? can you not fathom any existance better than oblivion?

Quote:I won;t be maintaining anything..regardless.  Either I;m going to simply cease to exist because there is no god and no afterlife..or, depending on what bullshit you've been caught in..I;m going to cease to exist as punishment for my "sins"....or...gods going to torture me into quivering compliance as punishment for my sins.  In each case, I'm no longer there.  

what about atonement?

Quote:What defense, simpleton?  I don't have one, won't be coming up with one, and don't have some sort of secret contigency plan to talk my way out of whatever torture a god has planned.  You must understand how fucking ridiculous that sounds........?  It sounds even more ridiculous to me...because I don't believe what you believe.  Do you understand?

You cant be this stupid..

Quote:Look, your idea of what atheists will do, or why they do what they do...relies on a person believing the shit you believe...on being a person -like- you.  It's absurd to even make the conjecture..since atheists, by definition..don;t believe what you believe..theyre not like you.  While you may believe that you;re offering up some sort of sage observation as regards atheists and their plans...you're not doing anything but giving us a window into your own soul...a window which, apparently, you yourself have never peered through...because you're blissfully unaware, while doing it, of what you're doing.

says the one who paint with a very broad brush.. I guess we should be thankful we are not talking about fried chicken and watermelon or we'd all have to cringe read what your thoughts were on people who liked those foods.

I have been doing this a while now, and I can tell you the term atheist means absolutely nothng. you guys can't even agree on a proper working definition. yes you will agree on the basic confession of no God, but then ask al sorts of questions that force on to automatically accept God. Or you will adopt the title atheist and in fact are misotheists.

If you are arguing or even discussing God then your position is not that God does not exist. I know you've tried your darnedest to try and walk that line, but in truth you've failed, as you've been caught doing both here.

TLDR, is there anything there that might apply to me, or is it more of you, imagining what you would do...if you were inside me?

Drich Wrote:

JamieB Wrote:Drich 
It makes sense to me why you believe in this invisible God.

What makes you think God is invisible to everyone?

A dearth of details on his appearance beyond 'featherless biped', probably with a white beard and definitely a penis. Maybe he's just hazy?