(July 2, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 1:43 am)Minimalist Wrote: Except there is no such "prophecy" in the OT.  Matty made it up.

I'll agree that there is no written prophesy such as this.  If he quotes numerous prophesies that are obviously genuine and one that doesn't appear to be I am inclined to look deeper.  

https://www.christiancourier.com/article...e-prophecy

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(July 2, 2017 at 10:30 am)Jehanne Wrote: There were tons of writings from the various Christian communities in the first two centuries after Jesus' death:

http://earlychristianwritings.com/

Various individuals were telling and retelling story after story.  There was never "a gospel" to begin with.

Sure there was a gospel.  Jesus' disciples were teaching it long before anything was written.  You guys are going through the bible with a fine toothed comb looking for any discrepancy you can find.  Even if you do find some, it doesn't at all prove that it message is false any more than can be done with most true accounts.

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“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” 
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

This is a false statement.  We are not all atheists!  Richard Dawkins is a liar.  Nothing he says is true.

Fuck me, Ken Ham is right!! were you there? How could you possibly know that?

P.S. You must believe in Zeus too? Coz Dawkins lies atheist not are you.

Bore

(July 2, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Minimalist Wrote: BTW, surely you know that large parts of your precious gospels were lifted directly from assorted OT bullshit?  They obviously did not have plagiarism rules back then!

Quote:2 Corinthians 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.


Psalms 112:9 He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.

Quote:Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.


Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Quote:Matthew 13:35 I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old

There is a shitload of these.  Prepare your excuses.

The reference your giving are English translations of earlier texts written in a different language. Probably none of the new testament writers' comments match word for word with whatever version of the old testament you're using. All translations are jut that - translations. It's impossible to get the exact wording of the writings which you are interpreting when translating into a different language. In fact many translations, such as the NIV, are phrase for phrase translations. The new testament writers were probably referencing one of the Hebrew language texts that were in use at the time and were writing in Greek. Keep trying.

So how come, you fucking phony, when it says what you want it to say that the translations are just fucking perfect.

You know, Lek, I'm starting to think that you are simply full of shit.

These translations are made by professionals.  Do not ever confuse yourself with one of them.

(July 2, 2017 at 1:46 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Lek Wrote: I'll agree that there is no written prophesy such as this.  If he quotes numerous prophesies that are obviously genuine and one that doesn't appear to be I am inclined to look deeper.  

https://www.christiancourier.com/article...e-prophecy

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Sure there was a gospel.  Jesus' disciples were teaching it long before anything was written.  You guys are going through the bible with a fine toothed comb looking for any discrepancy you can find.  Even if you do find some, it doesn't at all prove that it message is false any more than can be done with most true accounts.

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“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” 
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

This is a false statement.  We are not all atheists!  Richard Dawkins is a liar.  Nothing he says is true.

No scholar believes that the Gospels were written by any of Jesus' disciples, and on a minority believe them to contain eyewitness testimony.  They were written by second or third generation Christians who were living far outside of Palestine and were written in Greek, which Jesus and his illiterate disciples did not speak or read.

I like how you make these far-reaching statements such as "No scholar believes....". Are you seriously telling me that no scholars believe that the apostle Peter wrote 1 and 2 Peter? Or that the apostle John wrote the gospel of John and 1, 2 and 3 John? When you're talking about second or third generation christians, you're talking about composition dates in the 2nd century. When you're getting opinions from scholars it's good to get them from those on both sides of the aisle. I believe it's nearly impossible to find unbiased scholars when it comes to bible history.

First thing you would have to show is that there were any fucking "disciples."  Seems to me they were invented to be the Greek Chorus at the same time as jesus was invented.

(July 2, 2017 at 4:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So how come, you fucking phony, when it says what you want it to say that the translations are just fucking perfect.

You know, Lek, I'm starting to think that you are simply full of shit.

These translations are made by professionals.  Do not ever confuse yourself with one of them.

I never once said the scriptures are perfect. In fact I think they are flawed in many ways. I believe that they deliver the message that God intended them to. You generalize christians and make off the cuff statements. Then you throw in a harsh sounding statement with an expletive or two to try to belittle or demonize the person your directing it to.

(July 2, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 1:46 pm)Jehanne Wrote: No scholar believes that the Gospels were written by any of Jesus' disciples, and on a minority believe them to contain eyewitness testimony.  They were written by second or third generation Christians who were living far outside of Palestine and were written in Greek, which Jesus and his illiterate disciples did not speak or read.

I like how you make these far-reaching statements such as "No scholar believes....".  Are you seriously telling me that no scholars believe that the apostle Peter wrote 1 and 2 Peter?  Or that the apostle John wrote the gospel of John and 1,2 and 3 John?  When you're talking about second or third generation christians, you're talking about composition dates in the 2nd century.  When you're getting opinions from scholars it's good to get them from those on both sides of the aisle.  I believe it's nearly impossible to find unbiased scholars when it comes to bible history.

Find me a scholar, other than a fundamentalist such as WLC, who believes that the Apostle Peter wrote 1 & 2 Peter, especially, the latter.

Quote:Most scholars today conclude that Saint Peter was not the author of the two epistles that are attributed to him and that they were written by two different authors.[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship...e_epistles

John's Gospel and the Epistle have a little more credibility but most scholars hold to a non-disciple of Jesus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship...nine_works

(July 2, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Lek Wrote: I like how you make these far-reaching statements such as "No scholar believes....".  Are you seriously telling me that no scholars believe that the apostle Peter wrote 1 and 2 Peter?  Or that the apostle John wrote the gospel of John and 1, 2 and 3 John?  When you're talking about second or third generation christians, you're talking about composition dates in the 2nd century.  When you're getting opinions from scholars it's good to get them from those on both sides of the aisle.  I believe it's nearly impossible to find unbiased scholars when it comes to bible history.

In a previous post, you said that all christians believe Jesus to be he son of god. If you can seriously tell us that, then why do you balk at the idea that no scholars believe Jesus disciples did not write the gospels?

(July 2, 2017 at 4:44 pm)Lek Wrote: ...I believe it's nearly impossible to find unbiased scholars when it comes to bible history.

Au contraire, bible 'scholars' are almost invariably theologians or priests. So you're right, but for the wrong reasons.

(July 2, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 4:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So how come, you fucking phony, when it says what you want it to say that the translations are just fucking perfect.

You know, Lek, I'm starting to think that you are simply full of shit.

These translations are made by professionals.  Do not ever confuse yourself with one of them.

I never once said the scriptures are perfect.  In fact I think they are flawed in many ways.  I believe that they deliver the message that God intended them to.  You generalize christians and make off the cuff statements.  Then you throw in a harsh sounding statement with an expletive or two to try to belittle or demonize the person your directing it to.

Well, these are NOT flawed:

LE 12:2 A woman who has a child, especially a female child, is unclean and purification rites are required.
LE 15:2 When a man has any bodily discharge, it is unclean.
LE 15:4 Any bed that a man with a discharge lies on is unclean.
LE 15:5 Anyone who touches an unclean bed must bathe and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:6 Anyone who sits on anything that a person with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:7 Anyone who touches the skin of a person who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:8 Anyone who is spit upon by a person who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:9-10 Whatever [saddle] a person with a discharge sits on is unclean. Anyone who touches it must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:11 Anyone who is touched by a person with a discharge who has not washed his hands must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:12 Any clay or wood utensils that are touched by a person with a discharge are unclean and must be broken or washed.
LE 15:13-15 When his discharge has stopped, the person who had the discharge will count off seven days, wash his clothes and bathe. On the eight day, he must present two birds to the priest for an atonement for having had a discharge.
LE 15:16 When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body, and he is unclean until evening.
LE 15:17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed, and it is unclean until evening.
LE 15:18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe, and they are unclean until evening.
LE 15:19 A woman who is menstruating is unclean. Anyone who touches her is unclean.
LE 15:20 Anything which a woman who is menstruating sits on or lies on is unclean.
LE 15:21 Anyone who touches the bed of a woman who is menstruating must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:22 Anyone who touches anything which was sat upon by a woman who is menstruating must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.
LE 15:24 If a man lies with a woman who is menstruating and any of her discharge touches him, he is unclean for seven days. Any bed he lies on is also unclean.
LE 15:28 After her flow stops, a woman who was menstruating must count off seven days before she is considered clean again. On the eighth day, she must present two birds to the priest for an atonement for having had a menstrual discharge.