Humans commit suicide for a multitude of reasons, mainly because of severe depression, but can be a result of abuse by others, PTSD and terminal illness to which the person doesn't want to feel pain.

But, using a sky hero to explain why people do it, or what their punishment should be if they do is bullshit.

Our species behaviors is best explained by the sciences, in psychology, psychiatry and neurology and modern medicine.

But no, if your religion teaches you that someone is deserving of eternal torture because they kill themselves, the only thing that sky dictator can be called is a cruel monster.

(July 5, 2017 at 10:30 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Godscreated Wrote: Mine is the genuine thing with the real living God, all others are not. God said there are no other gods outside of Me. Being the creator He would know.

GC

God seems a little inconsistent on that point. God demoted the other gods to mortality in Psalms 82 for being unjust.

I also don't believe the bible ever claims that there are no other gods. I think it only ever says to never place any others before the Christian god.

(July 5, 2017 at 10:32 am)Jesster Wrote: I also don't believe the bible ever claims that there are no other gods. I think it only ever says to never place any others before the Christian god.

So many mythological gods are far superior to the mythological Christian god.

(July 5, 2017 at 10:34 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(July 5, 2017 at 10:32 am)Jesster Wrote: I also don't believe the bible ever claims that there are no other gods. I think it only ever says to never place any others before the Christian god.

So many mythological gods are far superior to the mythological Christian god.

In what context? Maybe as literary characters, but every god ever claimed is fictional so it's like arguing over the difference between Darth Vader and Captain Kirk. 

I'd say as far as characters go, the big three monotheistic religions all have the same tribal God who loves bloodshed and blind loyalty. You can certainly find in other religions more compassionate head characters sure. 

But even in polytheism surrounding and prior to those three, loyalty even in polytheism was a bigger demand because the mortality rate was far higher back then, so your survival depended on supporting your local royal rulers. 

But it is a mistake to think say the Greeks or Romans were less tribal, they were just as competitive in war as monotheists. Even the religions of China under the Tarracotta(sp) warriors were expected to be blindly loyal and show no mercy in war.

Humans in all of antiquity worldwide lived under ruling classes and city states competed just as brutally against rivals as much as we think of today's conflicts.

(June 30, 2017 at 7:43 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 30, 2017 at 4:18 pm)Die Atheistin Wrote: Christianity claims that God made you, and he loves you very much. If you kill yourself you will anger him, because you didn't apreccciate his gift, your life, and he will send you to Hell.
Guess what, nobody ever has choosed to be born, and not everybody has had a good life. People usually kill themeselves because they've been traumatised or hate themeselves. 
If God didn't want people to kill themeselves, why would He allow them to had bad lives? And if life is a "gift" than wouldn't you be allowed to do what you wan't with it?
When you give someone a present you expect them to do whatever they want with it. If God can't accept that He's a whiny little bitch.
Of course suicide is bad, but it's bad because you will also miss the good things in life, it's bad because it saddens people who love you, not because it will piss off some immature man in the sky. Bad has many shades, not all bad things need to be punished.
Suicidals need help in order to become happy, to enjoy life. Psychology claims the exact opposite of Christianity.
To discriminate against gays, women and atheists is one thing for Christianity. Sure, it's bad, really bad to hate people for being different. But to hate on people for not wanting to live is more than disgusting!

People don't go to hell for committing suicide, but for refusing God's offer of salvation.  Yes, suicide is considered sinful because our lives belong to God.  A follower of Christ shouldn't consider suicide.  The problem is we don't know what the state of a person's mind is at that point and are not equipped to make a judgement concerning that person's salvation.  If a person says "God, I know what your will is, but I don't care" I would think that he doesn't want salvation and won't have it.  If his mind is messed up, as is the case of many suicide victims, who knows?

This is one example of many where Christianity has "changed its tune" over the centuries.  Prior to the year 1900, there was no question whatsoever in theologians' minds that individuals who committed suicide went straight to eternal Hell.

(July 5, 2017 at 12:51 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 30, 2017 at 7:43 pm)Lek Wrote: People don't go to hell for committing suicide, but for refusing God's offer of salvation.  Yes, suicide is considered sinful because our lives belong to God.  A follower of Christ shouldn't consider suicide.  The problem is we don't know what the state of a person's mind is at that point and are not equipped to make a judgement concerning that person's salvation.  If a person says "God, I know what your will is, but I don't care" I would think that he doesn't want salvation and won't have it.  If his mind is messed up, as is the case of many suicide victims, who knows?

This is one example of many where Christianity has "changed its tune" over the centuries.  Prior to the year 1900, there was no question whatsoever in theologians' minds that individuals who committed suicide went straight to eternal Hell.

Again, it is always worth pointing out, that the further you go back in human history, worldwide, the more superstitious and the more socially conservative most humans were, not just in Christianity, but worldwide.

Conservatives exist in every religion and superstitions too. Far more of the world in antiquity were ignorant of scientific reality back then.

@Lek

NO, I don't belong to anyone. I am not property. Sad that you think your life belongs to someone else. Sad that you would subject yourself needlessly to some backwords romance which in reality is worship of servitude.

The good thing is that God does not exist and you are not the property of anyone. The bad thing for you, is that you have yet to realize this.

(July 5, 2017 at 10:26 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(July 5, 2017 at 1:15 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see things far clearer than you can imagine, I don't wear blinders. I understand you do not believe, but just because you do not believe doesn't make the only God not real. none of the other so called gods have ever tried to contact me, the God of creation and salvation brought me into a belief of Him and the proved himself to me. I'm not at fault for your disbelief nor is God, he's given you the choice between Him and yourself, the same as He did with Adam and Eve. My Christian walk has change over the years somethings I was dead set on I'm no longer holding on to them, it's a growth process that takes a life time and more, just as life in human relationships. The difference is that I can have this relationship for eternity.

This sort of religious self-delusion seriously needs to end.  All religious people need to seek professional help to better reconcile themselves with reality.

This is why anyone who attempts to indoctrinate a child should be brought up on charges.

(July 5, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(July 5, 2017 at 10:26 am)Lutrinae Wrote: This sort of religious self-delusion seriously needs to end.  All religious people need to seek professional help to better reconcile themselves with reality.

This is why anyone who attempts to indoctrinate a child should be brought up on charges.

That is highly subjective. No parent, regardless of religion likes others telling them how to raise their kids. It would depend on what they are selling the kid. I do think if you are selling a child bigoted superior crap and basing that on religion, that can have a negative effect on the child setting them up not to have good social skills.

But is is impossible to prevent parents in the civil west from them selling their kids the religions of their parents. Even liberal theists sell their children their religions. So this would be a "depends" not an absolute.

(July 5, 2017 at 1:20 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 5, 2017 at 12:51 pm)Jehanne Wrote: This is one example of many where Christianity has "changed its tune" over the centuries.  Prior to the year 1900, there was no question whatsoever in theologians' minds that individuals who committed suicide went straight to eternal Hell.

Again, it is always worth pointing out, that the further you go back in human history, worldwide, the more superstitious and the more socially conservative most humans were, not just in Christianity, but worldwide.

Conservatives exist in every religion and superstitions too. Far more of the world in antiquity were ignorant of scientific reality back then.

@Lek

NO, I don't belong to anyone. I am not property. Sad that you think your life belongs to someone else. Sad that you would subject yourself needlessly to some backwords romance which in reality is worship of servitude.

The good thing is that God does not exist and you are not the property of anyone. The bad thing for you, is that you have yet to realize this.

They did not seem themselves as being "conservative" but as simply being orthodox.

(July 5, 2017 at 1:56 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 5, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Astonished Wrote: This is why anyone who attempts to indoctrinate a child should be brought up on charges.

That is highly subjective. No parent, regardless of religion likes others telling them how to raise their kids. It would depend on what they are selling the kid. I do think if you are selling a child bigoted superior crap and basing that on religion, that can have a negative effect on the child setting them up not to have good social skills.

But is is impossible to prevent parents in the civil west from them selling their kids the religions of their parents. Even liberal theists sell their children their religions. So this would be a "depends" not an absolute.

If parents were to tell their kids they will be thrown onto a fire for not believing in the flying spaghetti monster, that would be child abuse. Social services via the courts will move the kids to a safe house. No sane person could object this.
If parents were to tell their kids they will be thrown onto a fire for not believing in jeebus, they will considered good Christian parents.