The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here.  Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination".  Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate").  Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation.  Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...

Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.

This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.

[stepping in]

I think all the christers (who aren't apostates or heretics) will agree anything homo will counteract totally any Salvation points previously accrued.

You can't lose what you never had.

and if they really were saved, they would be unable to even contemplate committing some of the more depraved sins


"oh yeah, I'm totally on board with Jesus! Praise Jesus! I'll admit, I'm plagued with thoughts of pouring crude oil on baby seals and making them eat asbestos insulation and then setting them on fire with an atomic reactor, and except for a couple of slips, I'm resisting those urges!!"

I think it's healthier and safer for all of us if believers think that they can lose their salvation. More of an incentive to behave in the real world.

Pa-lease, like they ever had any anyway. Stop fuckin with their heads.

I've a pretty good idea I've no idea what the question is. To lose one's salvation? That's easy enough; 'Holy ghost', you raped your own mother! That should do it.

(July 6, 2017 at 8:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You can't lose what you never had.

Pretty much this.  To lose a thing, first you'd have to have it .. and before that it should actually be a thing.  Salvation is not.

(July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here.  Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination".  Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate").  Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation.  Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...

Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.

This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.

The simple answer to your question of "Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?" is both yes and no.

(July 7, 2017 at 2:33 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here.  Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination".  Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate").  Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation.  Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...

Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.

This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.

The simple answer to your question of "Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?" is both yes and no.

A typical theological answer to a yes/no question.