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(June 30, 2017 at 4:18 pm)Die Atheistin Wrote: Christianity claims that God made you, and he loves you very much. If you kill yourself you will anger him, because you didn't apreccciate his gift, your life, and he will send you to Hell.
No. You will be judged just like everyone else based on what God gave you to deal with and how you dealt with your life. If God sent you straight to Hell that would be the unforgivable sin, and the bible does not label it as such. There is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheme of the holy Spirit.
Maybe not in the Bible, but the Church (maybe not all members or denominations, but many of them) claims that suicide is a sin. Whetever you consider it or not, the Church makes the rules, or it influences very great at the very least.
Quote:Guess what, nobody ever has choosed to be born, and not everybody has had a good life. People usually kill themeselves because they've been traumatised or hate themeselves.
or a whole lot of other reasons.
I said MOST of them not ALL of them. And even if the reason is stupid, do you think that eternal punishment or a punishment at all will change their way, that it will make them better?
Quote:If God didn't want people to kill themeselves, why would He allow them to had bad lives? And if life is a "gift" than wouldn't you be allowed to do what you wan't with it?
God doesn't want you to Kill yourself because this whole life is nothing but the breifest vapor and was meant to give you an oppertunity to choose what you want to do for eternity... If killing yourself means you hate life then maybe Hell is not such a bad option.
You said earlier that you won't be judged because of this. Contradicting yourself, aren't you? And maybe people have good reasons for hating their lives: abusive parents, wars, poverty. Your logic is that if someone can't handle pain in this life, no matter if they were moral or not, the next life should be literally eternal Hell. Makes perfect sense!
Quote:When you give someone a present you expect them to do whatever they want with it. If God can't accept that He's a whiny little bitch.
Of course suicide is bad, but it's bad because you will also miss the good things in life, it's bad because it saddens people who love you, not because it will piss off some immature man in the sky. Bad has many shades, not all bad things need to be punished.
Suicidals need help in order to become happy, to enjoy life.
happiness is not the key here it is leaning to be content.
So God doesn't want you to necesarilly be happy in this life. He wans you to be thankfull even for a shitty life, while there are others, including bad people, who live perfectly fine. He want's you to be a mindless robot, that follows his rules no matter what.
Quote:Psychology claims the exact opposite of Christianity.
which is?
Christianity claims that if you kill yourself you're a sinner that deserves eternal Hell. Psychology says that suicidal people aren't necessarily evil, they might be depressed or think that their death will accomplish something. They need to be helped to see the good things about life and about themselves. They need to be convinced that their life is worth, and therefore shouldn't comit suicide.
Quote:To discriminate against gays, women and atheists is one thing for Christianity.
book chapter and verse?
With great pleasure!
About gays: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
About women: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.(1 Corinthias 14:34-36)
About atheists: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.(Psalms 53:1)
I can search for more verses about these topics, there's enough of them. I can also search you verses that promote slavery, that say not to wear clothing with more than one material, ones that tell you not to shave your head and many other wonderfull subjects, if you are interested.
Quote: Sure, it's bad, really bad to hate people for being different. But to hate on people for not wanting to live is more than disgusting!
why?
Great question!
Let's begin about hating on people for being differrent. As long as they are not hurting others, why should you care? Maybe they're someone close to you, and their decissions may not satisfy you. Guess what! They have their own brain! Even if you are right and they are wrong, you can't think for them! So if none of you changes their mind, no matter what, you either accept the person or leave them. And even if a person has a defect, they may, just may have enough qualities to top that.
Now about suicide! Let's talk about three different persons. The first one is one you hate for a particular reason. This person want's to commmite suicide. You may be happy about it, since you hate the person, not care about it or feel sorry about it. Either way, it's their choice and their life, and chances are, it will affect you the least compared to other persons. The second person is someone you know nothing about, so you feel neutral about them. If they killed themselves you would probably feel sorry about them or don't care. However, you don't have a personal connection with them, and it's their life. So it's normal that you won't be as affected as if the third person would commit such an act. The person is someone you love. Now that would really affect you. The thing is, it woul affect you, BECAUSE you love them, BECAUSE you want them to live. Maybe you will hate their decision, but you will not hate the person. Unless said persons also kill other people as they kill themeselves or do it just to piss you or someone else off, you have no reason to be mad at them.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in God, in none"
Of course I care or I would not be here. My agenda as you put it is to give an account of why I believe in the triune God of creation and salvation, the God of the Bible. I do debate certain issues some times and defend my position on certain things, but I like to try and bring things around to why I believe.
I came to faith because I attended church as a young child and heard God's plan, later in my life God through the Holy Spirit convicted me of my need for salvation because I realized through His conviction I was a sinner and I accepted His gift of salvation through Christ. Over many years and much searching and asking things of God He gave me the proof, proof that He is who He says He is. Somethings came in physical things others came from answered prayers, a whisper in my ear if you will. Yes, I understood it was God who spoke to me because of the specific answers I was given. Deep devotion to God is why He answered, not just because some man wanting to hear something from Him to satisfy curiosity.
Explain to me what you believe it was that made you a devout Christian, I ask this because I do not believe I would ever refer to myself that way, I've to far to go in my relationship. I'm not sure what you mean by worthwhile, it's hard for me to understand why a pastor or others in the church couldn't answer your questions. This I can assure you it's extremely hard to do Bible study without those who can teach, God places them there for us. I can study much more on my own now because of the help those God placed in my path to help and I hope that I can be that for you. To suggest what you need to do that you "already" haven't done requires me to know what you did more specifically. Let me suggest this because I know it to be true from my own experiences, the deeper meanings of scripture is revealed only by the Holy Spirit. You can ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer them as long as they do not get into things so personal to me I want answer. Questions about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, questions about subjects and/or verses in the Bible, even questions about life with God or life in general. I promise there will be no made up answers, that would be cheating you and disregarding my relationship with God and neither of those would be satisfactory to me. We can keep discussions private even to the point of using e-mail if you want. It's shameful that people would treat you the way you described, I hope they misunderstood you, but then there are those who do not understand the teachings of scripture, unfortunately for you and others. They just do not understand the destruction they do. I will tell you this forgiving them is a great place to start, and believe me I know how hard that can be.
GC
In all of this, you never once told me what I should do, nor did you provide a path toward any form of truth. I'll listen, but only if you give me something of substance.
As I explained it's hard to give you a path when I do not know what it is that troubles you. I asked you to ask questions and/or tell me what it is you seek. To give you random advice would be of little use when I do not know what is bothering you, you do not understand or what you seek. I'm more than willing to help in what ever way I can. It's too bad we live on opposite sides of the country. I will suggest this, find a good Bible teaching Southern Baptist church in your area and start attending Bible studies especially those studies lead by the pastor. Smaller church can have their advantages if lead by a pastor who is seminary trained in the inerrancy of scriptures. Larger churches are less personal in many ways but usually have well trained pastors. Attending Bible studies is a great first step especially if you use them as a learning experience and not so much questioning the teaching. Questioning can come later when you've started to learn about the scriptures and how to study them. Studying the Bible is no easy task because so much of the scriptures from OT to NT are related. A good Christian book store is another place to start if you know what you are looking for, the stores carry books from different denominations and can confuse you as to what the Bible teaches. I'm not saying that different denominations teach different paths to salvation, most protestant churches agree on the way to salvation. Again ask me questions or tell me what's going on with you that keeps you from God.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(July 6, 2017 at 11:04 am)Jesster Wrote: In all of this, you never once told me what I should do, nor did you provide a path toward any form of truth. I'll listen, but only if you give me something of substance.
As I explained it's hard to give you a path when I do not know what it is that troubles you. I asked you to ask questions and/or tell me what it is you seek. To give you random advice would be of little use when I do not know what is bothering you, you do not understand or what you seek. I'm more than willing to help in what ever way I can. It's too bad we live on opposite sides of the country. I will suggest this, find a good Bible teaching Southern Baptist church in your area and start attending Bible studies especially those studies lead by the pastor. Smaller church can have their advantages if lead by a pastor who is seminary trained in the inerrancy of scriptures. Larger churches are less personal in many ways but usually have well trained pastors. Attending Bible studies is a great first step especially if you use them as a learning experience and not so much questioning the teaching. Questioning can come later when you've started to learn about the scriptures and how to study them. Studying the Bible is no easy task because so much of the scriptures from OT to NT are related. A good Christian book store is another place to start if you know what you are looking for, the stores carry books from different denominations and can confuse you as to what the Bible teaches. I'm not saying that different denominations teach different paths to salvation, most protestant churches agree on the way to salvation. Again ask me questions or tell me what's going on with you that keeps you from God.
GC
When did I say that anything troubles me? I am perfectly content without religion. If anything is troubling me right now at all, it is government paperwork that I am trying to deal with, but that's not related to this concern at all. That doesn't mean I am not in a position to listen, since listening is how we learn anything from others. All I am doing is offering an ear if anyone wants to convince me of anything. You seem to want to convince people of something, so I am giving you that chance. However, my past is behind me, so I don't see how that is relevant at all. I'm looking to the future now. If you want anything to do with that, it's entirely up to you at this point.
If you want to know what I seek, it is the truth. If anything you believe involves the truth, I would like to know why it is true. That would be important to me.
As for the Southern Baptist idea though, I've studied the bible with people of that denomination (and other denominations) before back when I believed. I also still have a good friend who belongs to that denomination who was working his way up to leadership in his church before we met in the military. We keep in touch often and still occasionally discuss religion. He knows his stuff, but I remain unconvinced. I will say that I've had nothing but good experiences with this specific group of people, though.
I'm not going to start sifting through a Christian book store, though. I'll leave it to people who remain convinced of a belief to present that belief to me. I'm surrounded by Christians every day, so it's not like I'm avoiding this. Everyone is being given their fair shot and I will hear them out as long as they remain civil about it. You are a civil person, so the door is also wide open for you as well.
(July 7, 2017 at 9:49 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: As it says in John 8:22 (TLB) = "The Jews asked, “Is he planning suicide? What does he mean, ‘You cannot come where I am going’?”"
What in the world does that have to do with the OP. The Jews ie. Pharisees did not know Him and could not imagine what He meant, their thoughts were of the flesh as the words in verse 22 tell us, "You are from below," meaning earthly beings trusting in the flesh.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
July 7, 2017 at 11:04 pm (This post was last modified: July 8, 2017 at 3:04 am by Mystical.)
See they assume you have issues if you don't believe lIke they do. It's a typical cult tactic actually; they probably don't even know what they're doing. Bouncing off one another, assuming someone's "eternal life and faith" are in peril anytime something bad happens to someone. When their targets are at their weakest, and are more willing to open their minds to the idea that they are flawed and that's why things aren't going right. You see it taught and preached by Prosperity pastors across the globe.
It's quite convenient, to claim someone's lost their way and pressure them to give up their will in show of faith. To pound into them that they are worthless and hopeless without their god.
If god were a boyfriend, he'd be flagged as an abusive gaslighter and that's that.
Getting you to share the very personal reasons why you ejded up in non belief, along with how you were as a believer, is classic apolologist mindfuckery. As long as we are talking about whats wrong with you, we arent talking about whats wronv with them or their god.
It's a unique tool used to overcome the hurdles of the cognative dissonance needed, in order to believe that they aren't just prayin to their own brain. Sure it's nice to believe there's a big god orchestrating everything, that's why they can believe that their prayers matter so much. They reason why god listens to them while at the same time ignoring the fact that vulture baby's prayers, do not. That god would help them find their lost keys or get that job promotion whilst sex slaves, refugees, or impoverished Christians all over Asia and Africa fall victim to starvation, war crimes, persecution and death. They blame suffering on the suffering, or those who do not believe in their religion. Meanwhile In truth religion and superstition is to blame for most of the nonsense on this planet!
Honestly I find it distasteful to say the least, these "innocent" questions about your lack of belief or reflecting your questions about theiR reasons for believing back at you. Because we all know they're going to claim they know where you went wrong. Tell you that you did it wrong, to go back to square one. Claim you weren't a true Christian, that's why you didn't fine their god. If Lek, Drich, and GC had a faith and beliefs comparison I guarantee they'd figure out they all have their own versions of god they believe in, it's not one shared being like they find comfort in claiming.
If I seem bitter towards them, I am. I've heard from these very Christians that morality is so objective that if god told them to smash babies heads over rocks or tear fetuses out of women's wombs with swords as ordered by OT god, they would. I've heard the sLavery apologetics, the "those were different times" argument. They sicken me, all of them.
Carry on though, by all means. It's interesting to watch scavengers pick over what they consider to be an easy meal. I like you, am curious as to why they are repeatedly repudiated and still stick to their beliefs based solely on ..feelings. Are they really that dumb or do they have alterior motives? I'm mainly confused why they hang around proving what absolute shit their religious beliefs are and yet that realization doesn't seem to penetrate their skills for some reason.
Sorry but it's sickening to watch raptors pick on a rabbit with the pretense of flowers and roses and daisies.
@GC I'd like to ask again of you since Lek tapped out. What if your wife lost all reason to live after your death, and did the unthinkable? Additionally what if against your baseless beliefs god actually went through with his promise to toss her in hell for eternity ?
You good with that?
So here's where we left off last we talked about hell and eternity. Got any new zingers now that your wife's soul is on the line?
(January 24, 2014 at 5:15 pm)Luckie Wrote: GC,
Please provide referebce for your claim of your version of hell. This is the hell Ive found biblical reference for :
Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Matthew 25:46 NIV
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
... And Hell is a sulfery fiery torment for eternity.
Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelations 14 (NEW TESTAMENT)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Revelations 19
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”
Revelations 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beastu and the false prophetv had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
(Rev. 19:19-21)
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
Matthew 10:33
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
Revelations 14 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Jeremiah states,
"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)
(January 26, 2014 at 8:06 pm)Godschild Wrote: @ luckie, I haven't answered your question because it took me many years of study, prayer and coming to an understanding of God to come to my belief of hell, I've stated many times it's not what most believe but for me it's the one that makes sense. I believe that the way I see hell makes it far worse than a hell of fire, physical pain can be far less painful than the mental anguish people bring upon their lives and to have eternity to do so, well I can't think of a worse way to live. Also one doing the punishing, not God, God is giving people a place to do that, all together. Man can not understand what it's like to be without any love, especially God's love. Even though many do not believe in Him that doesn't mean they do not receive His love, I believe that's why hell is described as a place of fire and brimstone, man's limited mind can not understand anything worse. As Forrest Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that."
GC
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
As I explained it's hard to give you a path when I do not know what it is that troubles you. I asked you to ask questions and/or tell me what it is you seek. To give you random advice would be of little use when I do not know what is bothering you, you do not understand or what you seek. I'm more than willing to help in what ever way I can. It's too bad we live on opposite sides of the country. I will suggest this, find a good Bible teaching Southern Baptist church in your area and start attending Bible studies especially those studies lead by the pastor. Smaller church can have their advantages if lead by a pastor who is seminary trained in the inerrancy of scriptures. Larger churches are less personal in many ways but usually have well trained pastors. Attending Bible studies is a great first step especially if you use them as a learning experience and not so much questioning the teaching. Questioning can come later when you've started to learn about the scriptures and how to study them. Studying the Bible is no easy task because so much of the scriptures from OT to NT are related. A good Christian book store is another place to start if you know what you are looking for, the stores carry books from different denominations and can confuse you as to what the Bible teaches. I'm not saying that different denominations teach different paths to salvation, most protestant churches agree on the way to salvation. Again ask me questions or tell me what's going on with you that keeps you from God.
GC
When did I say that anything troubles me? I am perfectly content without religion. If anything is troubling me right now at all, it is government paperwork that I am trying to deal with, but that's not related to this concern at all. That doesn't mean I am not in a position to listen, since listening is how we learn anything from others. All I am doing is offering an ear if anyone wants to convince me of anything. You seem to want to convince people of something, so I am giving you that chance. However, my past is behind me, so I don't see how that is relevant at all. I'm looking to the future now. If you want anything to do with that, it's entirely up to you at this point.
If you want to know what I seek, it is the truth. If anything you believe involves the truth, I would like to know why it is true. That would be important to me.
As for the Southern Baptist idea though, I've studied the bible with people of that denomination (and other denominations) before back when I believed. I also still have a good friend who belongs to that denomination who was working his way up to leadership in his church before we met in the military. We keep in touch often and still occasionally discuss religion. He knows his stuff, but I remain unconvinced. I will say that I've had nothing but good experiences with this specific group of people, though.
I'm not going to start sifting through a Christian book store, though. I'll leave it to people who remain convinced of a belief to present that belief to me. I'm surrounded by Christians every day, so it's not like I'm avoiding this. Everyone is being given their fair shot and I will hear them out as long as they remain civil about it. You are a civil person, so the door is also wide open for you as well.
Why did you leave the church, if you do not mind me asking.
I want to tell you something that happened to me several years ago that is only one of many things that allows me to know God is real. As I was reading the Bible, the book of Exodus, I read that God told Moses to tell His people I am, I am who I am. Of coarse I've read this many times before but this time I started wondering what God meant when He told Moses this. I prayed for an answer to this question every day for a long time. I wasn't getting an answer so I assumed God did not want to reveal this to me at the time and maybe never, so I quit asking and moved on to other things to pray about. We had began a Bible study at church that Henry Blackabee wrote, (probably spell his last name wrong) and it was to last several weeks. In the middle of this study we were to meditate about what we were learning and as I set in the middle of my bed doing so, with my mind completely clear of any thoughts I heard a voice very clearly say, I am the truth. I knew even after months of not even thinking about my prayer it was answered. God told me that He meant for the Israelites to know this, He is the truth. I went to my knees and thanked God for the answer. It took a long time for me to realize what this encompassed besides God doesn't lie. Here is what God was saying, for Him to love He had to be the truth, for Him to be just He must be the truth, for Him to be righteous he had to be the truth, for him to be sinless He had to be the truth, for Him to care about everyone He had to be the truth, for Him to be good He had to be the truth, for Him to be savior He had to be the truth, for Him to be forgiving He had to be the truth. I think you see what I'm saying, for God to be all the things He claims to be He has to be the absolute, objective truth. God could not be who He is without being the absolute truth. God opened this up to me through a prayer about Moses and what God told him. God answered my prayer about a man and his conversation with God several thousand years ago, a Bible story. Not only was God confirming that He is real but the story in the Bible is real and I got to learn so much more about the one who saw fit to give me eternal life through Jesus. I knew then that God had looked down through the ages and saw my needs and saw fit to answer me in His own time a time made for me. This may sound strange to you and in a way I hope it does so that you might think on it for a while, it is a true story that delights my heart every time I recall it, which is often, like last night. So I decided to share it with you. have a good rest of the weekend if you get this before the weekend is over.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
July 8, 2017 at 9:22 pm (This post was last modified: July 8, 2017 at 9:24 pm by Jesster.)
(July 8, 2017 at 8:48 pm)Godscreated Wrote: Why did you leave the church, if you do not mind me asking.
I'm going to assume you meant the literal church services and not the more figurative sense. I left those because I never felt comfortable at church services. I am an extreme introvert and I don't handle my anxiety well in social situations, so I do much better in small groups (or one-on-one) away from the more official-feeling programs.
If you mean to ask why I'm not a Christian anymore, however, it's because I just didn't have any reason to believe anymore even when I wanted to. It's as simple as that.
It was never anything too dramatic.
(July 8, 2017 at 8:48 pm)Godscreated Wrote:
I want to tell you something that happened to me several years ago that is only one of many things that allows me to know God is real. As I was reading the Bible, the book of Exodus, I read that God told Moses to tell His people I am, I am who I am. Of coarse I've read this many times before but this time I started wondering what God meant when He told Moses this. I prayed for an answer to this question every day for a long time. I wasn't getting an answer so I assumed God did not want to reveal this to me at the time and maybe never, so I quit asking and moved on to other things to pray about. We had began a Bible study at church that Henry Blackabee wrote, (probably spell his last name wrong) and it was to last several weeks. In the middle of this study we were to meditate about what we were learning and as I set in the middle of my bed doing so, with my mind completely clear of any thoughts I heard a voice very clearly say, I am the truth. I knew even after months of not even thinking about my prayer it was answered. God told me that He meant for the Israelites to know this, He is the truth. I went to my knees and thanked God for the answer. It took a long time for me to realize what this encompassed besides God doesn't lie. Here is what God was saying, for Him to love He had to be the truth, for Him to be just He must be the truth, for Him to be righteous he had to be the truth, for him to be sinless He had to be the truth, for Him to care about everyone He had to be the truth, for Him to be good He had to be the truth, for Him to be savior He had to be the truth, for Him to be forgiving He had to be the truth. I think you see what I'm saying, for God to be all the things He claims to be He has to be the absolute, objective truth. God could not be who He is without being the absolute truth. God opened this up to me through a prayer about Moses and what God told him. God answered my prayer about a man and his conversation with God several thousand years ago, a Bible story. Not only was God confirming that He is real but the story in the Bible is real and I got to learn so much more about the one who saw fit to give me eternal life through Jesus. I knew then that God had looked down through the ages and saw my needs and saw fit to answer me in His own time a time made for me. This may sound strange to you and in a way I hope it does so that you might think on it for a while, it is a true story that delights my heart every time I recall it, which is often, like last night. So I decided to share it with you. have a good rest of the weekend if you get this before the weekend is over.
GC
Okay. I've read and studied that part of the bible as well. I also did my fair share of praying when I was a Christian. It didn't really do anything like that for me, so I'm not sure what to tell you. If you want your god to give me some sort of sign or something, please tell him that I'm listening. I'm not going to just believe because someone else says they had some sort of experience.
After all your time trying to get people to believe, is telling your personal story your big go-to method? I've seen you mention this a few times before. I can assure you that this sort of thing won't work on pretty much any skeptical-minded person, including me. I'd suggest you start looking into why a skeptic believes anything (because we do believe things) and try to use that approach instead. Try to see things from another's perspective and maybe you'll be better equipped to speak with them. It's just a suggestion. You've been nice to me, so I'll try to return the favor. I hope you have a good weekend as well.
I want to tell you something that happened to me several years ago that is only one of many things that allows me to know God is real. As I was reading the Bible, the book of Exodus, I read that God told Moses to tell His people I am, I am who I am. Of coarse I've read this many times before but this time I started wondering what God meant when He told Moses this. I prayed for an answer to this question every day for a long time. I wasn't getting an answer so I assumed God did not want to reveal this to me at the time and maybe never, so I quit asking and moved on to other things to pray about. We had began a Bible study at church that Henry Blackabee wrote, (probably spell his last name wrong) and it was to last several weeks. In the middle of this study we were to meditate about what we were learning and as I set in the middle of my bed doing so, with my mind completely clear of any thoughts I heard a voice very clearly say, I am the truth. I knew even after months of not even thinking about my prayer it was answered. God told me that He meant for the Israelites to know this, He is the truth. I went to my knees and thanked God for the answer. It took a long time for me to realize what this encompassed besides God doesn't lie. Here is what God was saying, for Him to love He had to be the truth, for Him to be just He must be the truth, for Him to be righteous he had to be the truth, for him to be sinless He had to be the truth, for Him to care about everyone He had to be the truth, for Him to be good He had to be the truth, for Him to be savior He had to be the truth, for Him to be forgiving He had to be the truth. I think you see what I'm saying, for God to be all the things He claims to be He has to be the absolute, objective truth. God could not be who He is without being the absolute truth. God opened this up to me through a prayer about Moses and what God told him. God answered my prayer about a man and his conversation with God several thousand years ago, a Bible story. Not only was God confirming that He is real but the story in the Bible is real and I got to learn so much more about the one who saw fit to give me eternal life through Jesus. I knew then that God had looked down through the ages and saw my needs and saw fit to answer me in His own time a time made for me. This may sound strange to you and in a way I hope it does so that you might think on it for a while, it is a true story that delights my heart every time I recall it, which is often, like last night. So I decided to share it with you. have a good rest of the weekend if you get this before the weekend is over.
GC
Okay. I've read and studied that part of the bible as well. I also did my fair share of praying when I was a Christian. It didn't really do anything like that for me, so I'm not sure what to tell you. If you want your god to give me some sort of sign or something, please tell him that I'm listening. I'm not going to just believe because someone else says they had some sort of experience.
Many Christians do not receive an answer in the same way because they do not look to improve their understanding of God and what he's doing, they look to have an answer and then not use it in God's work. God also deals with different people in different ways and answers through the scriptures or other means. Most answered prayer IMO are from the scriptures, I know that's my experience.
God knows all about you and what you're doing, but because you asked me to pray (not that I've not been doing so) I will pray this specific prayer, it is what God desires from us for many different reasons. I shared my experience to show that the Bible is factual, receiving an answer about a very specific event in scripture at least shows me that the event did happen. Please be listening for God's answer to this prayer, I expect Him to answer.
Jesster Wrote:After all your time trying to get people to believe, is telling your personal story your big go-to method? I've seen you mention this a few times before. I can assure you that this sort of thing won't work on pretty much any skeptical-minded person, including me. I'd suggest you start looking into why a skeptic believes anything (because we do believe things) and try to use that approach instead. Try to see things from another's perspective and maybe you'll be better equipped to speak with them. It's just a suggestion. You've been nice to me, so I'll try to return the favor. I hope you have a good weekend as well.
I do mention some of my experiences in hopes that someone might take them serious enough to seek out God, they are real and have shown me God is who He says He is.
I've also used scripture. In the end it's God's work to convince you and others He is worth seeking out, then it's you and others that must respond. Jesus called me to witness what I know, not to try and talk you into believing. My efforts are to lead you to consider. People who play on the emotions of others to get them to believe are not doing what Christ desires.
Believe me I know of the skeptical mind, I have one and I see it as a blessing because it allows me to set back and consider what is and isn't the truth, it alerts me to things that are false whether people intend them to be false or are spreading what they think is right. I use this skeptical mind with Christians more than anyone else, why, because the knowledge God's given me in understanding His word causes me to go on alert and than seek out the truth through the scriptures or to dismiss what I know to be wrong.
I appreciate your kindness, I see in you someone who really cares and that's not something I want to exploit, instead I want to encourage you because of your kindness.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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