Christianity and Suicide

[Der/die AtheistIn]

Christianity claims that God made you, and he loves you very much. If you kill yourself you will anger him, because you didn't apreccciate his gift, your life, and he will send you to Hell.

No. You will be judged just like everyone else based on what God gave you to deal with and how you dealt with your life. If God sent you straight to Hell that would be the unforgivable sin, and the bible does not label it as such. There is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheme of the holy Spirit.

Maybe not in the Bible, but the Church (maybe not all members or denominations, but many of them) claims that suicide is a sin. Whetever you consider it or not, the Church makes the rules, or it influences very great at the very least.

Guess what, nobody ever has choosed to be born, and not everybody has had a good life. People usually kill themeselves because they've been traumatised or hate themeselves. 

or a whole lot of other reasons.

I said MOST of them not ALL of them. And even if the reason is stupid, do you think that eternal punishment or a punishment at all will change their way, that it will make them better? 

If God didn't want people to kill themeselves, why would He allow them to had bad lives? And if life is a "gift" than wouldn't you be allowed to do what you wan't with it?

God doesn't want you to Kill yourself because this whole life is nothing but the breifest vapor and was meant to give you an oppertunity to choose what you want to do for eternity... If killing yourself means you hate life then maybe Hell is not such a bad option.

You said earlier that you won't be judged because of this. Contradicting yourself, aren't you? And maybe people have good reasons for hating their lives: abusive parents, wars, poverty. Your logic is that if someone can't handle pain in this life, no matter if they were moral or not, the next life should be literally eternal Hell. Makes perfect sense!

When you give someone a present you expect them to do whatever they want with it. If God can't accept that He's a whiny little bitch.
Of course suicide is bad, but it's bad because you will also miss the good things in life, it's bad because it saddens people who love you, not because it will piss off some immature man in the sky. Bad has many shades, not all bad things need to be punished.
Suicidals need help in order to become happy, to enjoy life.

happiness is not the key here it is leaning to be content.

So God doesn't want you to necesarilly be happy in this life. He wans you to be thankfull even for a shitty life, while there are others, including bad people, who live perfectly fine. He want's you to be a mindless robot, that follows his rules no matter what.

Psychology claims the exact opposite of Christianity.

which is?

Christianity claims that if you kill yourself you're a sinner that deserves eternal Hell. Psychology says that suicidal people aren't necessarily evil, they might be depressed or think that their death will accomplish something. They need to be helped to see the good things about life and about themselves. They need to be convinced that their life is worth, and therefore shouldn't comit suicide.

To discriminate against gays, women and atheists is one thing for Christianity.

book chapter and verse?

With great pleasure!

About  gays: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
About women: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.(1 Corinthias 14:34-36)
About atheists: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.(Psalms 53:1)

I can search for more verses about these topics, there's enough of them. I can also search you verses that promote slavery, that say not to wear clothing with more than one  material, ones that tell you not to shave your head and many other wonderfull subjects, if you are interested.

Sure, it's bad, really bad to hate people for being different. But to hate on people for not wanting to live is more than disgusting!

why?

Great question!

Let's begin about hating on people for being differrent. As long as they are not hurting others, why should you care? Maybe they're someone close to you, and their decissions may not satisfy you. Guess what! They have their own brain! Even if you are right and they are wrong, you can't think for them! So if none of you changes their mind, no matter what, you either accept the person or leave them. And even if a person has a defect, they may, just may have enough qualities to top that.

Now about suicide! Let's talk about three different persons. The first one is one you hate for a particular reason. This person want's to commmite suicide. You may be happy about it, since you hate the person, not care about it or feel sorry about it. Either way, it's their choice and their life, and chances are, it will affect you the least compared to other persons. The second person is someone you know nothing about, so you feel neutral about them. If they killed themselves you would probably feel sorry about them or don't care. However, you don't have a personal connection with them, and it's their life. So it's normal that you won't be as affected as if the third person would commit such an act. The person is someone you love. Now that would really affect you. The thing is, it woul affect you, BECAUSE you love them, BECAUSE you want them to live. Maybe you will hate their decision, but you will not hate the person. Unless said persons also kill other people as they kill themeselves or do it just to piss you or someone else off, you have no reason to be mad at them. 

[Godscreated]

[Jesster]

In all of this, you never once told me what I should do, nor did you provide a path toward any form of truth. I'll listen, but only if you give me something of substance.

As I explained it's hard to give you a path when I do not know what it is that troubles you. I asked you to ask questions and/or tell me what it is you seek. To give you random advice would be of little use when I do not know what is bothering you, you do not understand or what you seek. I'm more than willing to help in what ever way I can. It's too bad we live on opposite sides of the country. I will suggest this, find a good Bible teaching Southern Baptist church in your area and start attending Bible studies especially those studies lead by the pastor. Smaller church can have their advantages if lead by a pastor who is seminary trained in the inerrancy of scriptures. Larger churches are less personal in many ways but usually have well trained pastors. Attending Bible studies is a great first step especially if you use them as a learning experience and not so much questioning the teaching. Questioning can come later when you've started to learn about the scriptures and how to study them. Studying the Bible is no easy task because so much of the scriptures from OT to NT are related. A good Christian book store is another place to start if you know what you are looking for, the stores carry books from different denominations and can confuse you as to what the Bible teaches. I'm not saying that different denominations teach different paths to salvation, most protestant churches agree on the way to salvation. Again ask me questions or tell me what's going on with you that keeps you from God.

GC

When did I say that anything troubles me? I am perfectly content without religion. If anything is troubling me right now at all, it is government paperwork that I am trying to deal with, but that's not related to this concern at all. That doesn't mean I am not in a position to listen, since listening is how we learn anything from others. All I am doing is offering an ear if anyone wants to convince me of anything. You seem to want to convince people of something, so I am giving you that chance. However, my past is behind me, so I don't see how that is relevant at all. I'm looking to the future now. If you want anything to do with that, it's entirely up to you at this point.

If you want to know what I seek, it is the truth. If anything you believe involves the truth, I would like to know why it is true. That would be important to me.

As for the Southern Baptist idea though, I've studied the bible with people of that denomination (and other denominations) before back when I believed. I also still have a good friend who belongs to that denomination who was working his way up to leadership in his church before we met in the military. We keep in touch often and still occasionally discuss religion. He knows his stuff, but I remain unconvinced. I will say that I've had nothing but good experiences with this specific group of people, though.

I'm not going to start sifting through a Christian book store, though. I'll leave it to people who remain convinced of a belief to present that belief to me. I'm surrounded by Christians every day, so it's not like I'm avoiding this. Everyone is being given their fair shot and I will hear them out as long as they remain civil about it. You are a civil person, so the door is also wide open for you as well.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

As it says in John 8:22 (TLB) = "The Jews asked, “Is he planning suicide? What does he mean, ‘You cannot come where I am going’?”"

[Godscreated]

As it says in John 8:22 (TLB) = "The Jews asked, “Is he planning suicide? What does he mean, ‘You cannot come where I am going’?”"

What in the world does that have to do with the OP. The Jews ie. Pharisees did not know Him and could not imagine what He meant, their thoughts were of the flesh as the words in verse 22 tell us, "You are from below," meaning earthly beings trusting in the flesh. 

GC

[Minimalist]

Thank you for proving what I asked, hell is eternal.

GC

It sure as shit would be if you were there yammering on about bullshit all the time.

[Mystical]

See they assume you have issues if you don't believe lIke they do. It's a typical cult tactic actually; they probably don't even know what they're doing. Bouncing off one another, assuming someone's "eternal life and faith" are in peril anytime something bad happens to someone. When their targets are at their weakest, and are more willing to open their minds to the idea that they are flawed and that's why things aren't going right. You see it taught and preached by Prosperity pastors across the globe. 
It's quite convenient, to claim someone's lost their way and pressure them to give up their will in show of faith. To pound into them that they are worthless and hopeless without their god.

If god were a boyfriend, he'd be flagged as an abusive gaslighter and that's that.

Getting you to share the very personal reasons why you ejded up in non belief, along with how you were as a believer, is classic apolologist mindfuckery. As long as we are talking about whats wrong with you, we arent talking about whats wronv with them or their god.

It's a unique tool used to overcome the hurdles of the cognative dissonance needed, in order to believe that they aren't just prayin to their own brain. Sure it's nice to believe there's a big god orchestrating everything, that's why they can believe that their prayers matter so much. They reason why god listens to them while at the same time ignoring the fact that vulture baby's prayers, do not. That god would help them find their lost keys or get that job promotion whilst sex slaves, refugees, or impoverished Christians all over Asia and Africa fall victim to starvation, war crimes, persecution and death. They blame suffering on the suffering, or those who do not believe in their religion. Meanwhile In truth religion and superstition is to blame for most of the nonsense on this planet!

Honestly I find it distasteful to say the least, these "innocent" questions about your lack of belief or reflecting your questions about theiR reasons for believing back at you. Because we all know they're going to claim they know where you went wrong. Tell you that you did it wrong, to go back to square one. Claim you weren't a true Christian, that's why you didn't fine their god. If Lek, Drich, and GC had a faith and beliefs comparison I guarantee they'd figure out they all have their own versions of god they believe in, it's not one shared being like they find comfort in claiming.

If I seem bitter towards them, I am. I've heard from these very Christians that morality is so objective that if god told them to smash babies heads over rocks or tear fetuses out of women's wombs with swords as ordered by OT god, they would. I've heard the sLavery apologetics, the "those were different times" argument. They sicken me, all of them. 

Carry on though, by all means. It's interesting to watch scavengers pick over what they consider to be an easy meal. I like you, am curious as to why they are repeatedly repudiated and still stick to their beliefs based solely on ..feelings. Are they really that dumb or do they have alterior motives? I'm mainly confused why they hang around proving what absolute shit their religious beliefs are and yet that realization doesn't seem to penetrate their skills for some reason.

Sorry but it's sickening to watch raptors pick on a rabbit with the pretense of flowers and roses and daisies.

@GC I'd like to ask again of you since Lek tapped out. What if your wife lost all reason to live after your death, and did the unthinkable? Additionally what if against your baseless beliefs god actually went through with his promise to toss her in hell for eternity ?
You good with that?

So here's where we left off last we talked about hell and eternity. Got any new zingers now that your wife's soul is on the line?

GC,
Please provide referebce for your claim of your version of hell. This is the hell Ive found biblical reference for :

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


... And Hell is a sulfery fiery torment for eternity.

Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelations 14 (NEW TESTAMENT)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelations 19
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”

Revelations 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beastu and the false prophetv had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

(Rev. 19:19-21)
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Matthew 10:33
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.


Revelations 14
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Jeremiah states,

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)

@ luckie, I haven't answered your question because it took me many years of study, prayer and coming to an understanding of God to come to my belief of hell, I've stated many times it's not what most believe but for me it's the one that makes sense. I believe that the way I see hell makes it far worse than a hell of fire, physical pain can be far less painful than the mental anguish people bring upon their lives and to have eternity to do so, well I can't think of a worse way to live. Also one doing the punishing, not God, God is giving people a place to do that, all together. Man can not understand what it's like to be without any love, especially God's love. Even though many do not believe in Him that doesn't mean they do not receive His love, I believe that's why hell is described as a place of fire and brimstone, man's limited mind can not understand anything worse. As Forrest Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that."

GC

[Godscreated]

[Jesster]

[Godscreated]