(July 16, 2017 at 10:50 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Notice I mentioned following an Icelandic guy on Facebook? He's got great English, you don't have to be born in an English speaking country you just have to put some work into learning the language. Not being great at English doesn't make you inferior and I wasn't implying that. What I meant was that in order to have a proper conversation with less misunderstandings you need a better grasp of the language you are arguing in. It might be better for you to find an atheist forum in your native language and start a conversation there. I know a little Japanese, but I would never go onto a Japanese Christian forum to argue when I'm not fluent in the language.

Unfortunately you haven't considered one important point.
If I would go as you suggest into a native language forum I would never improve my English.
Here on the contrary I do learn something every day.
Little every day but little bricks at the end build a palace.
I guess you never thought about that Ink, did you?  

Quote:Again, if you want to argue about a god separate from religion then let's do so. But most concepts/ideas of god come from religions and religious people, and so that's what we argue about. I'm fine discussing the possibility of a god who is not defined by any known religions. But then what defines it? What defines god for you?

Good question Ink.
But what about if God is within?
What about if you are God in a seed form?
What about if your seed once it sprout is God?

This Ink is spirituality.
Spirituality started with Shiva ages ago.
Long before any religion started.
Unfortunately few people follow spirituality these days.
Religions are the product of dogmas that have very little to do with spirituality.

Quote:Near Death Experiences are called near for a reason.

True, and the reason is that science is unable to explain how a person can die and then come back to life.

Quote:The person was not dead, just very close to death.

Wrong.
The person was certified dead by real doctors.

Quote:Close enough that they are considered clinically dead.

Dead is dead not close enough.
Heart stop, no blood or oxygen to the brain so dead dead not close enough.

Quote:As was mentioned before, no one has come back to life after being dead for days,

That doesn't mean that in the meantime these people could not have an NDE.

Quote:or having their heads cut off.

You go to the extreme Ink.
Why God would revive someone in that condition?
If God wanted to give an NDE He wouldn't choose someone which karma is so bad.

Quote:Jesus doesn't count because the only account of people witnessing his death is the Bible, which invented the character of Jesus in the first place

.


Wrong.
Roman historians tell us that Jesus was a real person.

Quote:As has also been explained to you, no one can verify that they actually experienced anything. We can verify their clinical death, but not what went on in their heads. For instance, I can tell you that last night I dreamed of unicorns in a land of candy. And you must believe me because I have witnesses who verify I went to sleep last night and woke up this morning.

Wrong.
Many people could see from above what doctors and nurses were saying or doing.
Once back into their bodies told the doctors and nurses what they were saying and doing and doctors and nurses were surprised to see that a dead person could be conscious alive instead.
Just read some of these experiences to find out for yourself.


http://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual? As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

(July 17, 2017 at 12:25 am)Astonished Wrote:

(July 16, 2017 at 8:53 pm)RedgraveStorm Wrote: Um, I don't know what's going on above, but as to the question that started this thread..

...I am truly a god. I have created life and pushed it according to my will; Whole universes have sprung up from my mind, with countries and histories and unique fauna. My creations follow my will, but they still sometimes find ways to surprise me; for even I, their creator and the one ultimately in control of their life, cannot fully control them. And you cannot deny any of this. Why?
Because I am a writer. Everything I just said is 100% true, which makes me a rather impotent, asocial, and insecure god.

Ever see Stranger Than Fiction? I mean, I like your analogy, but when you really look at it, it's kind of impossible not to see the writer/god character as an asshole (and as a writer myself, it's not a pleasant thought) so it's no coincidence when you look at the concept of gods objectively, they look like douchebags.

That's why I have more respect for the Norse, Greek, and Roman gods. The people who worshiped them were under no illusions that the gods are vindictive, petty, and mercurial. Those gods treated humans like toys in a cosmic game of D&D; and the Christian god isn't so different, except that he is supposed to be omni-benevolent; an assertion that is easily disproved by humans having no gills yet living on a planet of 71% water.

Off-topic, but what do you write?

Reply to Little Rik (your post was getting too long to quote):

Good for you for wanting to improve. All I'm saying is that it's hard to understand what you are saying sometimes, and that makes it more likely that misunderstandings will happen and derail our discussion.

You provide some "what if" statements here, but that's not enough. Just like with religious people you still have to provide evidence that your god exists if you are going to claim it does.

Certified dead by doctors is an appeal to authority fallacy (I think, someone correct me on this if I'm wrong). Doctors, like every other human, can be wrong and may diagnose death incorrectly.

If someone's head was severed and then they came back to life, that would be undeniable evidence of the supernatural. So why wouldn't god do this, and let us know it exists?

Roman historians seem to claim that someone named Jesus existed. But they don't claim that anything in the Bible actually happened. Everyone knows the Titanic was a real ship and real tragedy, but that doesn't automatically mean that everything in the movie Titanic was true.

Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

(July 17, 2017 at 11:42 am)RedgraveStorm Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 12:25 am)Astonished Wrote: Ever see Stranger Than Fiction? I mean, I like your analogy, but when you really look at it, it's kind of impossible not to see the writer/god character as an asshole (and as a writer myself, it's not a pleasant thought) so it's no coincidence when you look at the concept of gods objectively, they look like douchebags.

That's why I have more respect for the Norse, Greek, and Roman gods. The people who worshiped them were under no illusions that the gods are vindictive, petty, and mercurial. Those gods treated humans like toys in a cosmic game of D&D; and the Christian god isn't so different, except that he is supposed to be omni-benevolent; an assertion that is easily disproved by humans having no gills yet living on a planet of 71% water.

Off-topic, but what do you write?

Short fiction, based on some fairly uncommon premises, mostly sci-fi or supernatural in nature. Some based around religion and how the slightest weirdness actually happening generates a frenzy of insanity. Also zombies.

(July 17, 2017 at 11:14 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

What evidence you want Ink?
Physical evidence?
See, touch, smell, hear?
God is not a physical entity so the physical evidence is quite difficult unless God incarnate just to show brother Ink that He is real.
NDEs however are evidence enough even if anyone can get evidence just by developing the self or reach a stage in which the consciousness is high enough to perceive Him within.
It is all about establish a relationship with Him.
If you never do that you can not expect that God will show up to you.
It is like any relationship in life.
You may wish someone get close to you but if you don't show any real interest then the other party will not
get close to you.  

Quote:Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual?

You can do that Ink.
Just contact the hospital-s and ask for the record of that person on that particular day.
All hospital keep records.

Quote:As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

I already went through this topic months ago but here I will explain that once again.
God is not a clown that give demonstrations to non believers just to prove a point.
People who get an NDE get it for a reason which is to improve themselves.
On the other hand people who got the head cut off get that because their bad karma demand so.

In the first instance God see the possibility for a real improvement while in the second instance God doesn't
so it is pointless for Him to heal someone that instead need punishment.

Quote:Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Well, well Ink.
Just yesterday you said that.......Jesus doesn't count because the only account of people witnessing his death is the Bible, which invented the character of Jesus in the first place........
today instead you agree that there is somebody else that witness Jesus life.
Pontius Pilatus was the guy who put Jesus on the cross so even the Romans witnesses his life.
Resurrection however was witnessed by thousand and that was recorded in the Gospels rather than in the Bible if I don't go wrong.  

Quote:Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Why people would waste their time writing bull?
They get no money from anyone writing these things.
Hospitals keep records of them.
These people didn't fake their death so there is no reason for not believe them.

Quote:Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

Gee, there must be an army of doctors out there that are total imbeciles.
Help.      

---

(July 17, 2017 at 11:53 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

Guess what Ink?

You have no hope that your story will ever be published.

Why?
Because it is very easy to spot a fake story.
There is no hell so if you say that you pop up in hell it is obvious that your story is fake.

But now let me explain why there is no hell.
If God would create an hell then he wouldn't be God.
Hell is failure in God creation but God is God because he is perfect.
To be perfect involve that you do not do mistakes.
People who would end up in hell would be God's mistakes but God doesn't do mistake so hell is not possible and saying that you went to hell is therefore a lie.

Got it Mate?  


(color mine)

(July 18, 2017 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 11:14 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

What evidence you want Ink?
Physical evidence?
See, touch, smell, hear?
God is not a physical entity so the physical evidence is quite difficult unless God incarnate just to show brother Ink that He is real.
NDEs however are evidence enough even if anyone can get evidence just by developing the self or reach a stage in which the consciousness is high enough to perceive Him within.
It is all about establish a relationship with Him.
If you never do that you can not expect that God will show up to you.
It is like any relationship in life.
You may wish someone get close to you but if you don't show any real interest then the other party will not
get close to you.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very open to starting a relationship with any god that gives me evidence for it's existence, and I have stated this out loud and in my heart for any of them to hear. I'm still waiting to hear back from them. And yes, if god has a physical effect on our world it will leave behind physical evidence. We've already explained to you that near death experiences are not proper evidence as they cannot be verified.

Quote:Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual?

You can do that Ink.
Just contact the hospital-s and ask for the record of that person on that particular day.
All hospital keep records.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what country you're from, but here in America you can't do that. I cannot just walk into a hospital and demand a random person's medical records, they will not give them to me.

Quote:As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

I already went through this topic months ago but here I will explain that once again.
God is not a clown that give demonstrations to non believers just to prove a point.
People who get an NDE get it for a reason which is to improve themselves.
On the other hand people who got the head cut off get that because their bad karma demand so.

In the first instance God see the possibility for a real improvement while in the second instance God doesn't
so it is pointless for Him to heal someone that instead need punishment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this is just ridiculous now. You haven't even provided evidence of god, much less evidence for karma. Since we aren't talking about karma, we'll drop this line of discussion.

Quote:Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Well, well Ink.
Just yesterday you said that.......Jesus doesn't count because the only account of people witnessing his death is the Bible, which invented the character of Jesus in the first place........
today instead you agree that there is somebody else that witness Jesus life.
Pontius Pilatus was the guy who put Jesus on the cross so even the Romans witnesses his life.
Resurrection however was witnessed by thousand and that was recorded in the Gospels rather than in the Bible if I don't go wrong.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I said it seemed that some historians said he was real (in my second post). And none of them witnessed his life or death. They recorded things about him long after he had died. So do you have records written by Pontius Pilate around the date Jesus died detailing the events? And the four gospels are a part of literally every Bible... (Also, this is what I meant by the language barrier screwing us up. I never used the word "witness").

Quote:Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Why people would waste their time writing bull?
They get no money from anyone writing these things.
Hospitals keep records of them.
These people didn't fake their death so there is no reason for not believe them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you get money for arguing with me? Does anyone here get money for it? Do fanfiction writers get money for their work? I don't get money for my drawings but I still produce them. You don't have to get money to make something worthwhile. Some people are trolls, some people want to screw with a site like that to make it more likely someone will join their religion, some people are like me trying to prove a point. And while medical records are not completely private, there is no evidence I see that this site has the rights to get them. Especially when they never ask you what hospital you were treated in.

Quote:Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

Gee, there must be an army of doctors out there that are total imbeciles.
Help.      
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I never said they were imbeciles, I said they make mistakes, like everyone else. You make a lot of mistakes (like this one here), but that doesn't mean you are a complete moron.

---

(July 17, 2017 at 11:53 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

Guess what Ink?

You have no hope that your story will ever be published.

Why?
Because it is very easy to spot a fake story.
There is no hell so if you say that you pop up in hell it is obvious that your story is fake.

But now let me explain why there is no hell.
If God would create an hell then he wouldn't be God.
Hell is failure in God creation but God is God because he is perfect.
To be perfect involve that you do not do mistakes.
People who would end up in hell would be God's mistakes but God doesn't do mistake so hell is not possible and saying that you went to hell is therefore a lie.

Got it Mate?  


(color mine)

Yep, I got it. They operate on an assumed position that Hell does not exist, and so throw out any story claiming it does without even attempting to verify if it actually happened. I hope you realize this just makes the site look even worse than it already did. That is absolutely not a scientific way of doing things.

EDIT: Ok, I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to format quotes...

(July 18, 2017 at 11:10 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: I am very open to starting a relationship with any god that gives me evidence for it's existence, and I have stated this out loud and in my heart for any of them to hear. I'm still waiting to hear back from them

You just remind me about a butcher that was saying the same thing while cutting the meat.
A lot of people just don't get it.
To establish a relationship with God you need first to clean body and mind so to build a parallelism with God
way of thinking.
You can also be a butcher, a carnivorous, a drinker, a drug user, a gambler, a sinner, a criminal, a materialist, an atheist but it will be a lot lot harder because you put obstacles between you and Him.
Once however you remove all or many obstacles everything become so so easy.
Try to believe.

Quote:And yes, if god has a physical effect on our world it will leave behind physical evidence.

Your existence is the physical evidence.
The universe is the physical evidence but to understand all this you need to expand your consciousness.
That is what yoga is all about.
It is to understand who you are.
Om........I AM HIM.

I know all this sound crazy to you but this is how it works.
There is a sound in the whole universe but not everybody is able to hear that unless their consciousness is developed enough.
You however can hear a bit if you try.
Close your eyes and concentrate within.

Quote:We've already explained to you that near death experiences are not proper evidence as they cannot be verified.

Yes they can Ink.

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...e-obe.html

Quote:I don't know what country you're from, but here in America you can't do that. I cannot just walk into a hospital and demand a random person's medical records, they will not give them to me.

Records are kept however.

Quote:No, I said it seemed that some historians said he was real (in my second post). And none of them witnessed his life or death. They recorded things about him long after he had died. So do you have records written by Pontius Pilate around the date Jesus died detailing the events? And the four gospels are a part of literally every Bible... (Also, this is what I meant by the language barrier screwing us up. I never used the word "witness").

Nobody alive today witness Caesar cross the Rubicon or the Mongols invade other lands or the Viking go around half world killing and raping.
Does that means that it never happen?
Oh, yes that happen but in Jesus case it never happen.
Is that so Ink?  

Quote:Do you get money for arguing with me? Does anyone here get money for it? Do fanfiction writers get money for their work? I don't get money for my drawings but I still produce them. You don't have to get money to make something worthwhile. Some people are trolls, some people want to screw with a site like that to make it more likely someone will join their religion, some people are like me trying to prove a point. And while medical records are not completely private, there is no evidence I see that this site has the rights to get them. Especially when they never ask you what hospital you were treated in.

There is no need to check the hospital Ink.
All you have to do is to see the parallelism between your story and thousand of other NDEs stories.
Let us see some similarity.
1) 99% of people who had an NDE hate to come back into their bodies considering the beauty of the outside dimension and the hard reality of this earthly dimension.
2) Most of these people turn to spirituality regardless their previous beliefs.
3) Most of these people turn to vegetarianism unless they were already.
4) Most of these people turn their previous materialism into a simple life dedicated to help others and if they already did that they will improve even more their dedication.
No more interested into earthly pleasures.
5) All of them realize that a supreme being is in charge 24/7.
6) All of them realize that spiritual love is what count most of all.
7) All of them wish to go back in that dimension ASAP.

Quote:I never said they were imbeciles, I said they make mistakes, like everyone else. You make a lot of mistakes (like this one here), but that doesn't mean you are a complete moron.

Sure, doctors make mistakes but eh, isn't strange that they do mistakes regularly in case of an NDE?
I guess you never thought about that Ink, did you?  

Quote:Yep, I got it. They operate on an assumed position that Hell does not exist, and so throw out any story claiming it does without even attempting to verify if it actually happened. I hope you realize this just makes the site look even worse than it already did. That is absolutely not a scientific way of doing things.

Once you got 99% of people that experience God as the most loving being and they see that there is no hell
anywhere because mistakes get clean through reincarnation why should they believe that there is hell?

Quote:EDIT: Ok, I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to format quotes...

Not to worry Ink.
You put up with my bad English and I put up with your atrocious quoting.  

(July 19, 2017 at 10:18 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 18, 2017 at 11:10 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: I am very open to starting a relationship with any god that gives me evidence for it's existence, and I have stated this out loud and in my heart for any of them to hear. I'm still waiting to hear back from them

You just remind me about a butcher that was saying the same thing while cutting the meat.
A lot of people just don't get it.
To establish a relationship with God you need first to clean body and mind so to build a parallelism with God
way of thinking.
You can also be a butcher, a carnivorous, a drinker, a drug user, a gambler, a sinner, a criminal, a materialist, an atheist but it will be a lot lot harder because you put obstacles between you and Him.
Once however you remove all or many obstacles everything become so so easy.
Try to believe.

Quote:And yes, if god has a physical effect on our world it will leave behind physical evidence.

Your existence is the physical evidence.
The universe is the physical evidence but to understand all this you need to expand your consciousness.
That is what yoga is all about.
It is to understand who you are.
Om........I AM HIM.

I know all this sound crazy to you but this is how it works.
There is a sound in the whole universe but not everybody is able to hear that unless their consciousness is developed enough.
You however can hear a bit if you try.
Close your eyes and concentrate within.

Quote:We've already explained to you that near death experiences are not proper evidence as they cannot be verified.

Yes they can Ink.

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...e-obe.html

Quote:I don't know what country you're from, but here in America you can't do that. I cannot just walk into a hospital and demand a random person's medical records, they will not give them to me.

Records are kept however.

Quote:No, I said it seemed that some historians said he was real (in my second post). And none of them witnessed his life or death. They recorded things about him long after he had died. So do you have records written by Pontius Pilate around the date Jesus died detailing the events? And the four gospels are a part of literally every Bible... (Also, this is what I meant by the language barrier screwing us up. I never used the word "witness").

Nobody alive today witness Caesar cross the Rubicon or the Mongols invade other lands or the Viking go around half world killing and raping.
Does that means that it never happen?
Oh, yes that happen but in Jesus case it never happen.
Is that so Ink?  

Quote:Do you get money for arguing with me? Does anyone here get money for it? Do fanfiction writers get money for their work? I don't get money for my drawings but I still produce them. You don't have to get money to make something worthwhile. Some people are trolls, some people want to screw with a site like that to make it more likely someone will join their religion, some people are like me trying to prove a point. And while medical records are not completely private, there is no evidence I see that this site has the rights to get them. Especially when they never ask you what hospital you were treated in.

There is no need to check the hospital Ink.
All you have to do is to see the parallelism between your story and thousand of other NDEs stories.
Let us see some similarity.
1) 99% of people who had an NDE hate to come back into their bodies considering the beauty of the outside dimension and the hard reality of this earthly dimension.
2) Most of these people turn to spirituality regardless their previous beliefs.
3) Most of these people turn to vegetarianism unless they were already.
4) Most of these people turn their previous materialism into a simple life dedicated to help others and if they already did that they will improve even more their dedication.
No more interested into earthly pleasures.
5) All of them realize that a supreme being is in charge 24/7.
6) All of them realize that spiritual love is what count most of all.
7) All of them wish to go back in that dimension ASAP.

Quote:I never said they were imbeciles, I said they make mistakes, like everyone else. You make a lot of mistakes (like this one here), but that doesn't mean you are a complete moron.

Sure, doctors make mistakes but eh, isn't strange that they do mistakes regularly in case of an NDE?
I guess you never thought about that Ink, did you?  

Quote:Yep, I got it. They operate on an assumed position that Hell does not exist, and so throw out any story claiming it does without even attempting to verify if it actually happened. I hope you realize this just makes the site look even worse than it already did. That is absolutely not a scientific way of doing things.

Once you got 99% of people that experience God as the most loving being and they see that there is no hell
anywhere because mistakes get clean through reincarnation why should they believe that there is hell?

Quote:EDIT: Ok, I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to format quotes...

Not to worry Ink.
You put up with my bad English and I put up with your atrocious quoting.  

Look. You can quote your websites all you want, but none of them are scientific publications. Find me some scientific publications on NDEs and then we can talk. Until then, you are just throwing out assertion after assertion with no evidence to back them up. My existence doesn't tell me why I exist or what made me exist, it is only evidence that I do exist. Show me where you are getting your information about god from, because it looks like you are just pulling it out of your ass and expecting me to take your word for it. I'm not going to do that.

As for Caesar, you are still completely missing the point. No one "had to be there". We have writings from several people who were actually with him, and writings from the time of the actual event. The writings about Jesus are all written decades after he lived and died. Not even the gospels are written during the time he was alive. That's suspicious.

(July 19, 2017 at 11:14 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote:

(July 19, 2017 at 10:18 am)Little Rik Wrote: You just remind me about a butcher that was saying the same thing while cutting the meat.
A lot of people just don't get it.
To establish a relationship with God you need first to clean body and mind so to build a parallelism with God
way of thinking.
You can also be a butcher, a carnivorous, a drinker, a drug user, a gambler, a sinner, a criminal, a materialist, an atheist but it will be a lot lot harder because you put obstacles between you and Him.
Once however you remove all or many obstacles everything become so so easy.
Try to believe.


Your existence is the physical evidence.
The universe is the physical evidence but to understand all this you need to expand your consciousness.
That is what yoga is all about.
It is to understand who you are.
Om........I AM HIM.

I know all this sound crazy to you but this is how it works.
There is a sound in the whole universe but not everybody is able to hear that unless their consciousness is developed enough.
You however can hear a bit if you try.
Close your eyes and concentrate within.




Yes they can Ink.

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...e-obe.html





Records are kept however.




Nobody alive today witness Caesar cross the Rubicon or the Mongols invade other lands or the Viking go around half world killing and raping.
Does that means that it never happen?
Oh, yes that happen but in Jesus case it never happen.
Is that so Ink?  




There is no need to check the hospital Ink.
All you have to do is to see the parallelism between your story and thousand of other NDEs stories.
Let us see some similarity.
1) 99% of people who had an NDE hate to come back into their bodies considering the beauty of the outside dimension and the hard reality of this earthly dimension.
2) Most of these people turn to spirituality regardless their previous beliefs.
3) Most of these people turn to vegetarianism unless they were already.
4) Most of these people turn their previous materialism into a simple life dedicated to help others and if they already did that they will improve even more their dedication.
No more interested into earthly pleasures.
5) All of them realize that a supreme being is in charge 24/7.
6) All of them realize that spiritual love is what count most of all.
7) All of them wish to go back in that dimension ASAP.




Sure, doctors make mistakes but eh, isn't strange that they do mistakes regularly in case of an NDE?
I guess you never thought about that Ink, did you?  



Once you got 99% of people that experience God as the most loving being and they see that there is no hell
anywhere because mistakes get clean through reincarnation why should they believe that there is hell?




Not to worry Ink.
You put up with my bad English and I put up with your atrocious quoting.  

Look. You can quote your websites all you want, but none of them are scientific publications. Find me some scientific publications on NDEs and then we can talk. Until then, you are just throwing out assertion after assertion with no evidence to back them up. My existence doesn't tell me why I exist or what made me exist, it is only evidence that I do exist. Show me where you are getting your information about god from, because it looks like you are just pulling it out of your ass and expecting me to take your word for it. I'm not going to do that.

As for Caesar, you are still completely missing the point. No one "had to be there". We have writings from several people who were actually with him, and writings from the time of the actual event. The writings about Jesus are all written decades after he lived and died. Not even the gospels are written during the time he was alive. That's suspicious.

I suspect you wouldn't find a peer-reviewed journal or article on anything supernatural, or NDEs, without the word 'shit' with some kind of prefix like 'bull', 'horse', 'dog', etc., somewhere in them.

Personally I could give two shits if Caesar existed. What we learn from the story of his reign is sufficient. Anything else is just Shakespeare drama (and I don't give two shits if he existed either. We have the literature and that's all people who are into that kind of thing need.) Same with Socrates; what philosophy we learn from him and his students and their students are what matters. The existence of the person doesn't add anything significant. That's the difference between practicality and religion; in religion, the identity of the speaker and their existence is the only thing that makes what they say mean anything.