Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual? As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

(July 17, 2017 at 12:25 am)Astonished Wrote:

(July 16, 2017 at 8:53 pm)RedgraveStorm Wrote: Um, I don't know what's going on above, but as to the question that started this thread..

...I am truly a god. I have created life and pushed it according to my will; Whole universes have sprung up from my mind, with countries and histories and unique fauna. My creations follow my will, but they still sometimes find ways to surprise me; for even I, their creator and the one ultimately in control of their life, cannot fully control them. And you cannot deny any of this. Why?
Because I am a writer. Everything I just said is 100% true, which makes me a rather impotent, asocial, and insecure god.

Ever see Stranger Than Fiction? I mean, I like your analogy, but when you really look at it, it's kind of impossible not to see the writer/god character as an asshole (and as a writer myself, it's not a pleasant thought) so it's no coincidence when you look at the concept of gods objectively, they look like douchebags.

That's why I have more respect for the Norse, Greek, and Roman gods. The people who worshiped them were under no illusions that the gods are vindictive, petty, and mercurial. Those gods treated humans like toys in a cosmic game of D&D; and the Christian god isn't so different, except that he is supposed to be omni-benevolent; an assertion that is easily disproved by humans having no gills yet living on a planet of 71% water.

Off-topic, but what do you write?

Reply to Little Rik (your post was getting too long to quote):

Good for you for wanting to improve. All I'm saying is that it's hard to understand what you are saying sometimes, and that makes it more likely that misunderstandings will happen and derail our discussion.

You provide some "what if" statements here, but that's not enough. Just like with religious people you still have to provide evidence that your god exists if you are going to claim it does.

Certified dead by doctors is an appeal to authority fallacy (I think, someone correct me on this if I'm wrong). Doctors, like every other human, can be wrong and may diagnose death incorrectly.

If someone's head was severed and then they came back to life, that would be undeniable evidence of the supernatural. So why wouldn't god do this, and let us know it exists?

Roman historians seem to claim that someone named Jesus existed. But they don't claim that anything in the Bible actually happened. Everyone knows the Titanic was a real ship and real tragedy, but that doesn't automatically mean that everything in the movie Titanic was true.

Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

(July 17, 2017 at 11:42 am)RedgraveStorm Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 12:25 am)Astonished Wrote: Ever see Stranger Than Fiction? I mean, I like your analogy, but when you really look at it, it's kind of impossible not to see the writer/god character as an asshole (and as a writer myself, it's not a pleasant thought) so it's no coincidence when you look at the concept of gods objectively, they look like douchebags.

That's why I have more respect for the Norse, Greek, and Roman gods. The people who worshiped them were under no illusions that the gods are vindictive, petty, and mercurial. Those gods treated humans like toys in a cosmic game of D&D; and the Christian god isn't so different, except that he is supposed to be omni-benevolent; an assertion that is easily disproved by humans having no gills yet living on a planet of 71% water.

Off-topic, but what do you write?

Short fiction, based on some fairly uncommon premises, mostly sci-fi or supernatural in nature. Some based around religion and how the slightest weirdness actually happening generates a frenzy of insanity. Also zombies.

(July 17, 2017 at 11:14 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

What evidence you want Ink?
Physical evidence?
See, touch, smell, hear?
God is not a physical entity so the physical evidence is quite difficult unless God incarnate just to show brother Ink that He is real.
NDEs however are evidence enough even if anyone can get evidence just by developing the self or reach a stage in which the consciousness is high enough to perceive Him within.
It is all about establish a relationship with Him.
If you never do that you can not expect that God will show up to you.
It is like any relationship in life.
You may wish someone get close to you but if you don't show any real interest then the other party will not
get close to you.  

Quote:Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual?

You can do that Ink.
Just contact the hospital-s and ask for the record of that person on that particular day.
All hospital keep records.

Quote:As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

I already went through this topic months ago but here I will explain that once again.
God is not a clown that give demonstrations to non believers just to prove a point.
People who get an NDE get it for a reason which is to improve themselves.
On the other hand people who got the head cut off get that because their bad karma demand so.

In the first instance God see the possibility for a real improvement while in the second instance God doesn't
so it is pointless for Him to heal someone that instead need punishment.

Quote:Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Well, well Ink.
Just yesterday you said that.......Jesus doesn't count because the only account of people witnessing his death is the Bible, which invented the character of Jesus in the first place........
today instead you agree that there is somebody else that witness Jesus life.
Pontius Pilatus was the guy who put Jesus on the cross so even the Romans witnesses his life.
Resurrection however was witnessed by thousand and that was recorded in the Gospels rather than in the Bible if I don't go wrong.  

Quote:Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Why people would waste their time writing bull?
They get no money from anyone writing these things.
Hospitals keep records of them.
These people didn't fake their death so there is no reason for not believe them.

Quote:Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

Gee, there must be an army of doctors out there that are total imbeciles.
Help.      

---

(July 17, 2017 at 11:53 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

Guess what Ink?

You have no hope that your story will ever be published.

Why?
Because it is very easy to spot a fake story.
There is no hell so if you say that you pop up in hell it is obvious that your story is fake.

But now let me explain why there is no hell.
If God would create an hell then he wouldn't be God.
Hell is failure in God creation but God is God because he is perfect.
To be perfect involve that you do not do mistakes.
People who would end up in hell would be God's mistakes but God doesn't do mistake so hell is not possible and saying that you went to hell is therefore a lie.

Got it Mate?  


(color mine)

(July 18, 2017 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 11:14 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Good for you for wanting to improve. All I was saying is that it is hard to understand you, and that that means it's hard to have a meaningful discussion.

You give several "what if" statements, but do you have evidence to back any of them up? You say god exists apart from religion. I say, I don't care you still have to provide the evidence.

What evidence you want Ink?
Physical evidence?
See, touch, smell, hear?
God is not a physical entity so the physical evidence is quite difficult unless God incarnate just to show brother Ink that He is real.
NDEs however are evidence enough even if anyone can get evidence just by developing the self or reach a stage in which the consciousness is high enough to perceive Him within.
It is all about establish a relationship with Him.
If you never do that you can not expect that God will show up to you.
It is like any relationship in life.
You may wish someone get close to you but if you don't show any real interest then the other party will not
get close to you.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very open to starting a relationship with any god that gives me evidence for it's existence, and I have stated this out loud and in my heart for any of them to hear. I'm still waiting to hear back from them. And yes, if god has a physical effect on our world it will leave behind physical evidence. We've already explained to you that near death experiences are not proper evidence as they cannot be verified.

Quote:Dead involves more than the heart stopping, the brain has to stop as well. Can you provide the medical records of all the people on that website so I can see what doctors said about them? Or are they just claiming things with no evidence to back it up, as usual?

You can do that Ink.
Just contact the hospital-s and ask for the record of that person on that particular day.
All hospital keep records.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what country you're from, but here in America you can't do that. I cannot just walk into a hospital and demand a random person's medical records, they will not give them to me.

Quote:As for why would god revive someone who's head has been cut off, that would be a true miracle with no other explanation than that something supernatural occured. So why doesn't he give us that evidence?

I already went through this topic months ago but here I will explain that once again.
God is not a clown that give demonstrations to non believers just to prove a point.
People who get an NDE get it for a reason which is to improve themselves.
On the other hand people who got the head cut off get that because their bad karma demand so.

In the first instance God see the possibility for a real improvement while in the second instance God doesn't
so it is pointless for Him to heal someone that instead need punishment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this is just ridiculous now. You haven't even provided evidence of god, much less evidence for karma. Since we aren't talking about karma, we'll drop this line of discussion.

Quote:Roman historians say he was real (and that's debatable by the way), they don't say he was resurrected. We all know the Titanic was real, but that doesn't mean that the events in the movie Titanic actually happened.

Well, well Ink.
Just yesterday you said that.......Jesus doesn't count because the only account of people witnessing his death is the Bible, which invented the character of Jesus in the first place........
today instead you agree that there is somebody else that witness Jesus life.
Pontius Pilatus was the guy who put Jesus on the cross so even the Romans witnesses his life.
Resurrection however was witnessed by thousand and that was recorded in the Gospels rather than in the Bible if I don't go wrong.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I said it seemed that some historians said he was real (in my second post). And none of them witnessed his life or death. They recorded things about him long after he had died. So do you have records written by Pontius Pilate around the date Jesus died detailing the events? And the four gospels are a part of literally every Bible... (Also, this is what I meant by the language barrier screwing us up. I never used the word "witness").

Quote:Again, you're going to have to back up what you're saying with evidence, not a website full of claims that could easily be made up.

Why people would waste their time writing bull?
They get no money from anyone writing these things.
Hospitals keep records of them.
These people didn't fake their death so there is no reason for not believe them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you get money for arguing with me? Does anyone here get money for it? Do fanfiction writers get money for their work? I don't get money for my drawings but I still produce them. You don't have to get money to make something worthwhile. Some people are trolls, some people want to screw with a site like that to make it more likely someone will join their religion, some people are like me trying to prove a point. And while medical records are not completely private, there is no evidence I see that this site has the rights to get them. Especially when they never ask you what hospital you were treated in.

Quote:Also, appealing to the authority of doctors is fallacious. Doctors are humans and absolutely can declare someone dead wrongfully.

Gee, there must be an army of doctors out there that are total imbeciles.
Help.      
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I never said they were imbeciles, I said they make mistakes, like everyone else. You make a lot of mistakes (like this one here), but that doesn't mean you are a complete moron.

---

(July 17, 2017 at 11:53 am)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Guess what? I went on that website and submitted a near death experience of my own. Even though I've never had one. Maybe it will show up one day so you can read it and believe that Hell exists Don't believe everything you read online. I didn't have to provide any documentation that I had even died. They didn't even ask for the name of the hospital I stayed in.

Guess what Ink?

You have no hope that your story will ever be published.

Why?
Because it is very easy to spot a fake story.
There is no hell so if you say that you pop up in hell it is obvious that your story is fake.

But now let me explain why there is no hell.
If God would create an hell then he wouldn't be God.
Hell is failure in God creation but God is God because he is perfect.
To be perfect involve that you do not do mistakes.
People who would end up in hell would be God's mistakes but God doesn't do mistake so hell is not possible and saying that you went to hell is therefore a lie.

Got it Mate?  


(color mine)

Yep, I got it. They operate on an assumed position that Hell does not exist, and so throw out any story claiming it does without even attempting to verify if it actually happened. I hope you realize this just makes the site look even worse than it already did. That is absolutely not a scientific way of doing things.

EDIT: Ok, I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to format quotes...