(August 14, 2017 at 10:35 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 10:00 pm)Dropship Wrote: Ex-SAS man Bear Grylls (below) said "My Christian faith is my backbone", so he'd be an ideal choice to lead us and inspire us to victory in a zombie apocalypse..

WTF does that have to do with my comments on the psychology of lying to oneself?

Sorry, I don't understand all that philosophical stuff. Anyway, if a pathological liar is lying to himself how does he know if he's telling the truth or not?
In fact a hostile alien computer blew a gasket in a Star Trek episode when Kirk said to it- "Listen carefully, everything I say is a lie"  because it couldn't get its head round it..

Atheists and foxholes??

Hmmmm, how about True Christian men who have my dick up their butts ??

(August 14, 2017 at 10:41 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 10:29 pm)Fr33Th1nker Wrote: Hi all. I am new here. I believe in God but I am a free thinker too.

I don't actually find the post funny since most of the statement are true and are facts except those statements about atheists. The statements are all true, the observations are correct but I'm sorry to say that the conclusion is wrong. There are scientific explanations for all those statements and has noting to do with God.

Here's a better example of what is funny:

A child was experimenting on a frog. He  put his face close to the frog and shouted jump! To his expectation, the frog did jump. Then he cut off 1 of its leg and again put his face near the frog and shouted jump! Again he was not surprised to see the frog jump. He then proceeded to cut another leg and put his face near the frog and shouted jump. In spite of the frog having two legs left, the frog still managed to jump. The third time he cut the frog's legs and shouted jump, the frog was not able to jump but was able to move. The child, still not satisfied with his experiment, decided to cut the last leg of the frog. So for the last time he put his face close to the frog and shouted jump several times. When the frog did not jump or move, the child smiled brightly and had a eureka moment. He observed that if you cut all the legs of the frog the frog will not be able to move. The observation is correct! He therefore concluded that if you cut off all of the legs of the frog and shout at the frog to jump, the frog becomes deaf that's why he can't move. The frog can't hear you shout.

Correct observation but wrong conclusion like the topic of this thread.

Actually that's also incorrect, if you know a bit more about the items in the statements that were made. Let me point out a few.

There is actually at least one tribe discovered that has no god concept. So that's at least one place in the world that religion hasn't been practiced in. So that's wrong.

Also men and women aren't all built with a desire for one another. There's homosexuals, and people who identify as asexual. Or bisexual. Lots of flavors out there, but of course if you're the kind of asshole who believes that any such sexual predilections are a choice, then of course that would be denied.

The 'automated' food chain didn't help 99% of every form of life that ever existed from going extinct, or large portions of the world from becoming deserts or frozen wastelands.

And the human body's functions can be fucked with and still function. Pancreas shutdown, colostomies, etc.

Scrutiny is a powerful tool against arrogance and bullshit. I know you're new but please remember that believing in god is not really a statement compatible with being a 'freethinker' since you have to suspend quite a bit of thought to be able to believe it. Just wanted to point that out.

I appreciate you adding more information on some of the statements that were made. There is always room for acceptance and learning.

However, as for your comment, "that believing in god is not really a statement compatible with being a 'freethinker'" you might want to consider this reply:

A standard dictionary defines a freethinker as “one that forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority; especially one who doubts or denies religious dogma.” What this means is that to be a freethinker, a person has to be willing to consider any idea and any possibility. The standard for deciding the truth-value of claims is not tradition, dogma, or authorities — instead, it must be reason and logic.


The term was originally popularized by Anthony Collins (1676-1729), a confidant of John Locke who wrote many pamphlets and books attacking traditional religion. He even belonged to a group called “The Freethinkers” which published a journal entitled “The Free-Thinker.”

Collins used the term as essentially a synonym for anyone who opposes organized religion and wrote his most famous book, The Discourse of Free Thinking (1713) to explain why he felt that way. He went beyond describing freethinking as desirable and declared it to be a moral obligation:

Because he who thinks freely does his best toward being right, and consequently does all that God, who can require nothing more of any Man than that he should do his best, can require of him.
As should be obvious, Collins did not equate freethinking with atheism — he retained his membership in the Anglican church. It wasn’t belief in a god which attracted his ire, but instead, people who simply “take the Opinions they have imbibed from their Grandmothers, Mothers or Priests.”

WHY ATHEISM AND FREETHOUGHT ARE DIFFERENT
At the time, freethinking and the freethought movement was usually characteristic of those who were deists just as today freethinking is more often characteristic of atheists — but in both cases, this relationship is not exclusive. It is not the conclusion which differentiates freethought from other philosophies, but the process.


A person can be a theist because they are a freethinker and a person can be an atheist despite not being a freethinker.

For freethinkers and those who associate themselves with freethought, claims are judged based on how closely they are found to correlate with reality. Claims have to be capable of being tested and it has to be possible to falsify it — to have a situation which, if discovered, would demonstrate that the claim is false. As the Freedom From Religion Foundation explains it:

For a statement to be considered true it must be testable (what evidence or repeatable experiments confirm it?), falsifiable (what, in theory, would disconfirm it, and have all attempts to disprove it failed?), parsimonious (is it the simplest explanation, requiring the fewest assumptions?), and logical (is it free of contradictions, non sequiturs, or irrelevant ad hominem character attacks?).
FALSE EQUIVALENCY
Although many atheists may be surprised or even annoyed by this, the obvious conclusion is that freethought and theism are compatible while freethought and atheism are not the same and one does not automatically necessitate the other. An atheist might legitimately raise the objection that a theist cannot also be a freethinker because theism — the belief in a god — cannot be rationally grounded and cannot be based upon reason.

The problem here, however, is the fact that this objection is confusing the conclusion with the process. As long as a person accepts the principle that beliefs regarding religion and politics should be based on reason and makes a genuine, sincere, and consistent attempt to evaluate claims and ideas with reason, refusing to accept those which are unreasonable, then that person should be regarded as a freethinker.

Once again, the point about freethought is the process rather than the conclusion — which means that a person who fails to be perfect does not also fail to be a freethinker. An atheist might regard the theist’s position as erroneous and a failure to apply reason and logic perfectly — but what atheist achieves such perfection? Freethought is not based on perfection.

(August 14, 2017 at 10:43 pm)Dropship Wrote: Sorry, I don't understand all that philosophical stuff. Anyway, if a pathological liar is lying to himself how does he know if he's telling the truth or not?

I'm not talking about pathological liars.  I'm talking about people who are unable to believe but try to believe anyway.

I used to be one of those people, up until about 9 years ago.  I tried hard to fit in to a couple of religious groups but was never able to suspend disbelief, and have never experienced what one might call religious faith.

The day I stopped trying to believe, I had asked myself the question "Would I testify under oath in a court of law that {insert name of any god here} was real?"  The answer was an emphatic "No."  Since that moment I've self-identified as an agnostic atheist.

Hoo boy...got a live one here. Well, FT...

That was a lot of...something? So you can take that as a 'considered, and rejected' as far as your reply. You literally defeated yourself with your own points and also injected a non sequitur into it. Don't much care for the rest, if people want to coin a phrase as something, that's fine, but as I pointed out, in order to believe what you believe, much thought must be suspended, ergo, not exactly a 'free' thinker in the literal sense. Your last few points also refute your position because there's no way you could have arrived at your conclusion in such a way as that which you describe. That's called a special pleading fallacy, if you wanted to say 'nuh-uh, I'm different'.

Forcing a restriction upon your critical thinking capacity logically precludes a completely free thinker in the literal sense. Try to weasel out of it all you want, you don't get to divorce yourself from the reality of it with friendly and disarming euphemisms. If you wanted to give the impression you were in some way superior to other theists in some bizarre way by masquerading as a critical thinker, I'm just telling you, don't insult our intelligence. If you truly believe you've got some inside knowledge or other pathway to arrive at your conclusion than anyone else, well, then that's even sadder and scarier.

Show me a religionist who questions his precepts, and I'll show you a heretic.

So much for freethinking religionists.

(August 11, 2017 at 3:49 pm)pabsta Wrote: Isn't It Funny...
 

• … that gravity on earth just happens to be the perfect value to allow humans to move freely, and never varies such that people become stuck in place or float into the atmosphere, wiping out humanity?
  
• … that the air quality on earth just happens to provide the perfect environment to sustain human life, never varying such that human beings become poisoned or suffocated, wiping out all humanity?
  
•  … that the distance of the earth from the sun never varies such that all humanity either burns or freezes to death?
  
•  … that atheists admit there are laws of nature, but deny there is anyone who created those laws?
  
•  … that studies have been performed confirming that there is no place on earth where religion hasn't been practiced? Why do people have this built-in instinct?
  
•  … that every person is born with a built-in knowledge that actions such as murder, suicide, theft, and deceit are wrong, without ever having to learn about this in school?
  
•  … that every person that goes against this built-in knowledge (the natural law) also has a voice of conscience that rebukes him repeatedly that what he did was wrong? Where does this voice come from and why do we all have it?
  
•  … that every person has a built-in desire to pursue the truth in matters, and to balance the scales of justice when they become imbalanced?
  
•  … that every person instinctively begs God for help when death appears imminent, whether they previously learned to do this or not?
  
•  … that men and women just happen to be created with a built in desire for one another?
  
•  … that men and women just happen to have the built-in desire for self-preservation and procreation?
  
•  … that there is an automated food chain across the globe that continuously maintains life?
  
•  … that the human brain, a 3 pound piece of tissue, is the most complex computer found on the planet?
  
•  … that the human heart can maintain life for over 100 years with its own mysterious source of energy?
  
•  … that of the countless functions of the human body, if any of them were omitted or occurred in a different order, it would wipe out humanity?
  
• … that many atheists try to assert there is no God due to deaths in past wars, while they neglect to acknowledge the fact that 4.5 million people die of natural causes across the globe every MONTH (55 million per year)?
  
• … that atheists will become angry when these facts are pointed out in this forum post? This anger obviously stems from the atheist continuously fighting his own conscience as it repeatedly points out all of these facts.
  

 
Is all the above a coincidence? Clearly not, but rather it is proof for a Divine Creator.

Do you understand evolution?

---

(August 11, 2017 at 8:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I accept evolution, but I do think God was behind it and planned for things to line up so perfectly the way they did.

Why do you feel there needs to be a god behind this? You say things 'lined up perfectly'; in your eyes, what would an imperfect result of evolution have looked like?

(August 14, 2017 at 10:00 pm)Dropship Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 9:55 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: So, you gonna advance the cause of science and do the experiment or puss out?!? I'm guessing puss out. I'm betting you've never even seen a real weapon and if somebody showed you one you'd piss yourself and faint in fear. You just keep on with your online, imitation bad-assery. The real world's probably way too scary for you anyway.

If you google "bible bullet" you'll see pics of bibles that stopped bullets..
As for scary, I admit I'm terrified of women in bright red lipstick and gigantic high heels, but on the cyber battlefield under my fighting name of PoorOldSpike I do alright!
For examp here's a 6" 'Rugged Defence' trophy I won, I keep it on a coffee table in my living room, carefully positioned to ensure it's the first thing guests see when they arrive, and I can keep steering the conversation towards it during the course of the evening..-

That's what I thought. You're gonna puss out. Whassa matta Internet super-souja? Real weapons too scary for ya? Man up ya little sissy. Let somebody take the shot at the buy-bull your holding in front of your face, or forever be condemned for the coward that you are. You lack courage to your convictions.

You're mighty proud of your on-line heroism. Too bad it's all you'll ever have.

(August 14, 2017 at 10:29 pm)Fr33Th1nker Wrote: Hi all. I am new here. I believe in God but I am a free thinker too.

I don't actually find the post funny since most of the statement are true and are facts except those statements about atheists. The statements are all true, the observations are correct but I'm sorry to say that the conclusion is wrong. There are scientific explanations for all those statements and has noting to do with God.

Here's a better example of what is funny:

A child was experimenting on a frog. He  put his face close to the frog and shouted jump! To his expectation, the frog did jump. Then he cut off 1 of its leg and again put his face near the frog and shouted jump! Again he was not surprised to see the frog jump. He then proceeded to cut another leg and put his face near the frog and shouted jump. In spite of the frog having two legs left, the frog still managed to jump. The third time he cut the frog's legs and shouted jump, the frog was not able to jump but was able to move. The child, still not satisfied with his experiment, decided to cut the last leg of the frog. So for the last time he put his face close to the frog and shouted jump several times. When the frog did not jump or move, the child smiled brightly and had a eureka moment. He observed that if you cut all the legs of the frog the frog will not be able to move. The observation is correct! He therefore concluded that if you cut off all of the legs of the frog and shout at the frog to jump, the frog becomes deaf that's why he can't move. The frog can't hear you shout.

Correct observation but wrong conclusion like the topic of this thread.

You believe in god, and are a freethinker.  This ought to be good.

BTW, I'm a huge midget.