(August 17, 2017 at 11:34 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 5:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Whoa....You mean you can name actual names? 
Been sneaking a peek in the Book of Life, haven't you? Admit it! 
I promise, I won't tell a soul.

Is Paul Bunyan in there? Dorian Gray? Jimmy Neutron? Please...tell me!
I just want...I mean, I just NEED to know that they'll be okay! Okay?

First names anyway and yes, I have snuck a peek of the book of life, inso far as what God shares of it.

Oh, I see. 
I presume this happened during the fever-dream in which when you visited Down Below?

NOTE: Down Below isn't a chain/grocery/outlet store with rock bottom prices; It's what I call Hell sometimes.

(August 17, 2017 at 12:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 17, 2017 at 12:04 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Here's a statement from the Catholic Church about Mormon baptism:

The baptism conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be considered a valid Christian baptism, said the Vatican's doctrinal congregation.
The ruling by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was published in the July 16-17 edition of the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, after being approved by Pope John Paul II.
While the Mormon baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Mormon beliefs about the identity of the three persons is so different from Catholic and mainline Christian belief that "one cannot even consider this doctrine to be a heresy arising from a false understanding of Christian doctrine," said a Vatican explanation of the ruling.
The notice, dated June 5, was signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the congregation, and by Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary.
An accompanying article in L'Osservatore Romano said the ruling "changes the past practice of not contesting the validity of this baptism."


Damn, that is right there condemning all Mormons, ain't it??  Mormon beliefs aren't even heresy (!!!!)  they are so far off the mark in their understanding of Jesus and therefore baptism.  I see nothing in that statement that confirms the notion Mormons are Christians in the view of the Catholic Church.

What this means is that if a Mormon wants to convert to Catholicism, he must be baptized in the Catholic Church. Because Mormonism is so different from Catholicism, a Mormon baptism doesn't translate over like a protestant baptism would. 

This by no means indicates that Mormons are bad people condemned to Hell. Just that our faiths are different enough to where a Mormon who is converting to Catholicism would need to be baptized over again, in the Catholic Church.

Mormonism is so different from Catholicism because they have a concept of God, Jesus and Holy Ghost that is at odds with Catholic teaching.

So do atheists.

I'd beseech you to hew a little closer to Catholic dogma on this.  That  the Catholic hierarchy doesn't even consider the Mormon version of Jesus to even be heresy is ASTONISHING.  Mormons aren't mistaken, or wrong, or confused on the details, they are completely, totally, and emphatically off by themselves on this.


Some examples to clarify:


Jesus is a murderer = heresy

Jesus is an Amalekite = vile heresy

Mormon Jesus = so far off of anything we have previously encountered we (RCC) don't know what it is


Please, run, do not walk, away from any idea your church does not have the gravest concerns regarding Mormonism.  Additionally, it's irrelevant how 'nice' Mormons are, by the church's understanding, they would just be exhibiting the immense power of Satan to deceive.

It's important to me (perhaps even more important to me than you?) that you remain a good, pious, and faithful Catholic while you're here.

(August 17, 2017 at 1:12 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 17, 2017 at 12:05 pm)Drich Wrote: "FALSE TEACHERS FORBID MARRIAGE "is the crux of the highlighted passage in 2 tim.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09056a.htm is an explanation of where your ecclesiastical law comes from.

By the parameters Paul left to timothy that group highlighted can be considered as a false teacher because of their views on marriage.

............?

I'm not sure you understood my response there........

Firstly, catholics do not forbid marriage - they greatly advocate for it..and babies...lots and lots of babies.  The reason that this prohibition was put in place was that a great many priests were using their position to enrich or enhance their children's lives and affairs.  This, I hope, to anyone's mind, is a misuse of such a position.  Partly in order to combat that..the church decided to set up their rules such that there was no opportunity for that grift.  It's not part of their doctrine...they don't think that a preist -has- to be unmarried and celibate for any divine reason - it's a practical concern over good stewardship of the institution.  They can change that rule at any time.  

It's akin to the "Don't bring your fucking gun to church" rule.  They're not "forbidding guns"...just strongly suggesting that the cathedral probably isn't the place to show off your shiny new pistol, for the same reasons that priests with baby daddy problems aren't going to be on their a-game.  It, caused, problems.....lol.

Getting lazy in my old age:
So let's start here:
Theologically, the Church desires to imitate the life of Jesus with regard to chastity and the sacrifice of married life for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:28-30, Matthew 19:27-30; Mark 10:20-21), and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the Church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ". Also of import are the teachings of St. Paul that chastity is the superior state of life, and his desire expressed in I Corinthians 7:7-8, "I would that all men were even as myself [celibate] — but every one has his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. But I say to the unmarried and the widows. It is good for them if they so continue, even as I."

Practically speaking, the reasons for celibacy are given by the Apostle Paul in I Corinthians 7:7-8;32-35: "But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of this world how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord without impediment."

Celibacy for priests is a discipline in the Roman Catholic Church, not a doctrine: in other words, a church regulation, but not an integral part of Church teaching. It is based upon the life of Christ and his celibate way of life. However the first pope, St. Peter, as well as many subsequent popes, bishops, and priests during the church's first 270 years were in fact married men, and often fathers. The practice of clerical continence along with a prohibition of marriage to men once ordained a deacon, priest or bishop by the Council of Elvira. This law was reinforced in the West at the Council of Carthage in 390. It remains law today for Latin Rite Catholics, but not for Eastern Catholics. Until recently, the Eastern Catholic bishops of North America would generally ordain only unmarried men, for fear that married priests would create scandal. Since Vatican II's call for the restoration of Eastern Catholic traditions, a number of bishops have returned to the traditional practice of ordaining married men to the presbyterate. Bishops are still celibate and normally chosen from the ranks of monks.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...834AAkJ2S6
Again Even though Paul was unmarried, He told timothy this in 1 tim 4: Any forbidding marriage is a false teacher.
 The Spirit clearly says that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe. They will obey spirits that tell lies. And they will follow the teachings of demons. 2 Those teachings come through people who tell lies and trick others. These evil people cannot see what is right and what is wrong. It is like their conscience has been destroyed with a hot iron. 3 They say that it is wrong to marry. 
do you get it now?
According to Paul no one is allowed to tell another they can not marry for the sake of God. Paul foresaw a day in the end times where this would be a common practice in the name of God. The Catholic leadership has been forbidden to marry. therefore by the authority of Paul these are false teachings.

---

(August 17, 2017 at 1:39 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(August 17, 2017 at 11:34 am)Drich Wrote: First names anyway and yes, I have snuck a peek of the book of life, inso far as what God shares of it.

Oh, I see. 
I presume this happened during the fever-dream in which when you visited Down Below?

NOTE: Down Below isn't a chain/grocery/outlet store with rock bottom prices; It's what I call Hell sometimes.

If you took the time to read what I have said... you'd see the list I have is given in scripture. A list of any and every church would identify as non "christians" being welcomed into Heaven with God.

That is why I say, we do not have the authority no the power to label someone 'christian/saved.' Because millions will be labled saved (as fortold in the bible) that never uttered the name Christ. Meaning it is not the church or ritual that saves us/makes us Christian. Only Jesus can do that.

(August 12, 2017 at 12:57 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I cannot think of a clear example of where the Church of Rome directly contradicts any scriptural mandate.

Baptism?

Apart from our regulars:

The lesser spotted troll.
The greater spotted troll.

(August 17, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 12, 2017 at 12:57 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I cannot think of a clear example of where the Church of Rome directly contradicts any scriptural mandate.

Baptism?

You mean like infant versus believer baptism?

"...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." -Mark 16:15-16

I don't see that as being clearly on the side of either.

I spotted this girl, think she might be rastafari.

Indeed.

(August 17, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(August 17, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Baptism?

You mean like infant versus believer baptism?

"...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." -Mark 16:15-16

I don't see that as being clearly on the side of either.

No I mean how the Catholic church baptizes vs how the apostles actually baptized.

Sending initiates to the River Jordan gets pricey pretty fast . . . .