It’s simple.

Natural is all that is, whether it is known at the present or not. It is what is.

Supernatural is all conceptual entities whose non-existence would create such discomfort in the wishthinking minds of superstitionists that they would abjure any demonstrably effective approach to truth finding that threaten to undermine the make belief, and always incorporating some combinations of shabby sophistry, mindless hysterics, pompous browbeating, blood curdling but hollow threats and outright bloody violence in the effort.

Supernaturalists sooooooooooo want their fictions to be realities, yet they never can find any solid empirical evidence to back their claims that do not illogically clash with concepts that merely exists in their minds as imaginative.

(September 28, 2017 at 10:13 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: It’s simple.  

Natural is all that is, whether it is known at the present or not.   It is what is.

Supernatural is all conceptual entities whose non-existence would create such discomfort in the wishthinking minds of superstitionists that they would abjure any demonstrably effective approach to truth finding that threaten to undermine the make belief, and always incorporating some combinations of shabby sophistry, mindless hysterics, pompous browbeating, blood curdling but hollow threats and outright bloody violence in the effort.

Shhh...settle down. I want to see what ol' Steve thinks it means. I want to know the context as he applies it


(I started writing an essay on this for shits and giggles but it has ballooned a bit on me and I need to comb back through it, but I may post it here at some point as a rebuttal to whatever Steve responds with)

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(September 28, 2017 at 10:16 am)Lutrinae Wrote: Supernaturalists sooooooooooo want their fictions to be realities, yet they never can find any solid empirical evidence to back their claims that do not illogically clash with concepts that merely exists in their minds as imaginative.

They also don't understand that if they could demonstrate their supernatural beliefs as fact, then they would become natural explanations instead of supernatural beliefs. There should be a very strong and very real motivation for supernatural beliefs to be tested and proven, but they always seem to fail. It's almost as if most of them are...fictitious.

I like this line from Tim Minchin's poem titled "Storm"
"Throughout history every mystery ever solved turned out to be...not magic."

(September 28, 2017 at 9:29 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(September 27, 2017 at 7:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: Science is the study of the natural world. 

What about Computer Science?

It is an applied science. It uses what we have discovered about the natural (physical) world, manipulating electricity, and applies it to achieve a goal or solve a problem. Computer science also uses math and logic (themselves not science) to produce results. 

Quote:

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(September 27, 2017 at 9:19 pm)SteveII Wrote: There is nothing I believe that needs defending from science.

So you don't believe in an eternal afterlife or an eternal god then?

Sure I do. You are vastly mistaken if you think science can comment on either of those things. The very definition limits it to the physical world in our universe. It is utter nonsense to think it can investigate what is beyond.

(September 28, 2017 at 10:43 am)SteveII Wrote:

(September 28, 2017 at 9:29 am)Mathilda Wrote: What about Computer Science?

It is an applied science. It uses what we have discovered about the natural (physical) world, manipulating electricity, and applies it to achieve a goal or solve a problem. Computer science also uses math and logic (themselves not science) to produce results. 

Quote:

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So you don't believe in an eternal afterlife or an eternal god then?

Sure I do. You are vastly mistaken if you think science can comment on either of those things. The very definition limits it to the physical world in our universe. It is utter nonsense to think it can investigate what is beyond.

Natural is not a synonym for physical. Try again.

(September 28, 2017 at 9:40 am)TheBeardedDude Wrote:

(September 28, 2017 at 9:29 am)Mathilda Wrote: What about Computer Science?

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So you don't believe in an eternal afterlife or an eternal god then?

Actually I think the bigger problem is what Steve thinks the word "natural" means with respect to the philosophy of science. 

So what is it you think the words "natural" and "nature" mean with respect to the context of science, Steve?

The physical world.

Quote:Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")[1][2]:58 is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledgein the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science 

(September 28, 2017 at 10:13 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: It’s simple.  

Natural is all that is, whether it is known at the present or not.   It is what is.

Supernatural is all conceptual entities whose non-existence would create such discomfort in the wishthinking minds of superstitionists that they would abjure any demonstrably effective approach to truth finding that threaten to undermine the make belief, and always incorporating some combinations of shabby sophistry, mindless hysterics, pompous browbeating, blood curdling but hollow threats and outright bloody violence in the effort.

Well, well, well.
Here we got the expert in what is natural.

Let us see your evidence that the supernatural is not natural so we know that you are not talking bull. 

(September 28, 2017 at 10:51 am)Little Rik Wrote: Let us see your evidence that the supernatural is not natural so we know that you are not talking bull. 

It wouldn't be called "super"natural if it was just natural.

(September 28, 2017 at 10:48 am)SteveII Wrote:

(September 28, 2017 at 9:40 am)TheBeardedDude Wrote: Actually I think the bigger problem is what Steve thinks the word "natural" means with respect to the philosophy of science. 

So what is it you think the words "natural" and "nature" mean with respect to the context of science, Steve?

The physical world.

Quote:Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")[1][2]:58 is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledgein the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science 

Neither nature or natural mean the "physical world" with respect to science either. Try again. (you can look it up)

(September 28, 2017 at 10:53 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(September 28, 2017 at 10:51 am)Little Rik Wrote: Let us see your evidence that the supernatural is not natural so we know that you are not talking bull. 

It wouldn't be called "super"natural if it was just natural.

The concept is very very tricky to understand for someone stuck in this physical realty.
Many people think that science only relate to physical science which is not the case.
The same goes for what is natural.
Most people think that is natural only what we can grasp with our physical mental senses and awareness but that is not the case Lut.
Behind this physical-mental awareness there is something else a lot lot bigger than this relative awareness.
This behind is called supernatural but in reality is natural to our total awareness.
The fact that most people are not aware of what is the totality of the natural is not a good reason to say that it doesn't exist and therefore call it supernatural.