(October 10, 2017 at 6:44 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Really? That's pretty good. I find that when I want to do something and have the opportunity to do it, I most likely will, even if i think it is immoral.

That surprises me.

Personally, if I acted on some of the urges I've had over the years I'd likely be doing life in prison.

(October 10, 2017 at 3:00 pm)Aroura Wrote: I think some of you are being a bit hard on her.  They are legitimate wonderings.  Asking questions is a very healthy thing.  

What is interesting to me is that this line of reasoning in the OP is what eventually lead me to realize that free-will isn't real.  We don't chose to be good or bad.  We just are what we are.  And good and bad are both totally subjective, depending on who's POV you are looking from.

To answer the OP, I didn't answer your poll, even though I read it, for some of the reasons you are wondering.  I try and be the best I can, but I am not comfortable labeling myself as a "good" person. I am a fortunate, lucky person.  That's the best way I can think of to describe myself.

Good questions, CL.  I hope it spurs more good conversations.

(October 10, 2017 at 1:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The thing is, most of us don't rape, murder, steal, cheat on our spouse, etc (whatever it is that might make us "bad people")... simply because we neither have the desire to nor the opportunity to. Especially with rape and kill. We can pat ourselves on the back for never having done anything like that, but really it's just pure luck that we weren't born with the genetic desire for those things, and/or raised in such a way or culture that might lead us to it. Its pure luck that I don't have the genetic predisposition to want to have sex with multiple men and so I stay loyal to mine.

(October 10, 2017 at 6:17 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 6:11 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have killed a shit load of people, mostly those were trying to kill me, or would have tried if I'd have given them the least chance. But if you ask the people who know me IRL they'd say I was  a good person. They say it often enough to me.

I get the same.  People thank me for what I've done without asking what I did...and if i ever tell them...they come up with reasons -for- me.  I don't know about you, but the strangest thing for me is realizing that by most other peoples standards (at least the people in my social circle) I'm a boy scout, a walking saint.  The kid nextdoor.  I watch them agonize over their own moral status while giving me a pass to do..it seems..pretty much anything.

I don't think I'll ever forgive myself (but at the same time ther's a part of me that doesn't give a single fuck)....but every year, I get a holiday and a bunch of flag waiving and people say horrible shit that they probably think I agree with about what I did, about who I am and who I'll always be...and on the inside I;m positively dying but I don't have the heart to take it from them.

(October 10, 2017 at 1:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I started a poll thread yesterday asking people if they thought of themselves as good. I answered the poll myself (yes) and also stated that I think most people/the average person are generally good.

I do feel that way. But nonetheless there is something that has always bothered me about that sentiment.

The thing is, most of us don't rape, murder, steal, cheat on our spouse, etc (whatever it is that might make us "bad people")... simply because we neither have the desire to nor the opportunity to. Especially with rape and kill. We can pat ourselves on the back for never having done anything like that, but really it's just pure luck that we weren't born with the genetic desire for those things, and/or raised in such a way or culture that might lead us to it. Its pure luck that I don't have the genetic predisposition to want to have sex with multiple men and so I stay loyal to mine. But if we wanted to do something really bad and we had the opportunity to, would we do it?

Does it really speak to our character when we've never done anything really bad simply because we've never had the desire/opportunity to do it? When was the last time we resisted doing something (even something really small) that we wanted to do and could do, but didnt simply because we thought it was wrong? And if we always do the wrong thing every single time we want to and have the opportunity to despite knowing its wrong, are we really that different from the person who rapes every time he feels like it and can? If so, the only difference between him and us is desire and opportunity.

Maybe saying "im a good person because ive never killed, raped, stolen, cheated, abused anyone, etc," when the desire/opportunity to do those things was never there to begin with, isnt a good measurement of character. Maybe character should be measured by the times we wanted to do something we knew in our hearts is immoral, had the opportunity to do it, but chose not to simply for the sake of doing the right thing. Unfortunately, off the top of my head, I can think of a handful of times I've resisted immorality, but not overwhelmingly. Maybe none of us are really as good as we think we are.

As Dumbledore said, "There comes a time in life when we must choose between what is easy and what is right." When that happens, how many times do we take the easy road?

Thoughts?

(October 10, 2017 at 8:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 6:44 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: That surprises me.

Personally, if I acted on some of the urges I've had over the years I'd likely be doing life in prison.

Lol interesting.

No, I've never had urges that would put me in jail. Just more day to day things, like, yelling when I'm angry, doing something selfish, etc.

(October 10, 2017 at 8:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 6:44 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: That surprises me.

Personally, if I acted on some of the urges I've had over the years I'd likely be doing life in prison.

Lol interesting.

No, I've never had urges that would put me in jail. Just more day to day things, like, yelling when I'm angry, doing something selfish, etc.

(October 10, 2017 at 6:17 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 6:11 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have killed a shit load of people, mostly those were trying to kill me, or would have tried if I'd have given them the least chance. But if you ask the people who know me IRL they'd say I was  a good person. They say it often enough to me.

I get the same.  People thank me for what I've done without asking what I did...and if i ever tell them...they come up with reasons -for- me.  I don't know about you, but the strangest thing for me is realizing that by most other peoples standards (at least the people in my social circle) I'm a boy scout, a walking saint.  The kid nextdoor.  I watch them agonize over their own moral status while giving me a pass to do..it seems..pretty much anything.

I don't think I'll ever forgive myself (but at the same time ther's a part of me that doesn't give a single fuck)....but every year, I get a holiday and a bunch of flag waiving and people say horrible shit that they probably think I agree with about what I did, about who I am and who I'll always be...and on the inside I;m positively dying but I don't have the heart to take it from them.

(October 10, 2017 at 7:32 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I've fallen short of my moral standards often enough to be very cautious of claiming goodness on my own behalf. I'm content to do the best I can and let others judge me on that basis.

(October 10, 2017 at 7:32 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I've fallen short of my moral standards often enough to be very cautious of claiming goodness on my own behalf. I'm content to do the best I can and let others judge me on that basis.