Protip: while it's not against the forum's rules, most people here don't take proselytization kindly.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: There are a couple of reasons I'm here - first, I want to help people come to Christ, because having been on both sides, I can say this is the less miserable one. It's not always sunshine and rainbows, but the tough times are less tough, and there's way more direction.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you won't help people "come to Christ" here.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: Regarding what you said and what chimp3 got at, have you guys ever heard of "bridge theory"? It's the idea that God is infinitely good, so sin is infinitely bad, and that, to reconcile the broken relationship between God and man (since the Jews couldn't keep the covenant God gave them), something infinite needed to happen to replace all the finite works (which is all we as people are capable of) of the covenant of the Old Testament (which goes waay beyond the 10 Commandments). All the animal sacrifices given by the people were flawed and never kept, so something perfect needed to be given to reconcile all the sin for all time, and that was Jesus' sinless life. 

God didn't allow Jesus to sin so we could have relationship with Him, to answer that question, and to answer the next, we should expect everything from Him BECAUSE He did that. We couldn't atone for ourselves, so Jesus did, and that is an act of extreme sacrificial love such as has never been seen in literature or other religions or in the real world, because sin is infinitely bad in the eyes of God, and yet He sacrificed Jesus for us despite how bad sin mars us in His eyes. And yet we have a hard time seeing people who we disagree with in a loving way (yes, I struggle with that, too).

You know it's not true when you make up a reason for the made up thing. It's one of the ways to spot a con artist - if they try to sell you a solution to a problem only they know exists, then the problem is not real... and the solution is snake oil.

Define sin without referring to a god.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote:

(October 8, 2017 at 8:49 pm)Succubus Wrote: You have the floor.

This is hardly enough space (and I have hardly enough time) to get into all of it. BUT I'll start off with this:

There is extra-Biblical evidence of Jesus' existence (look up the historian "Josephus", he is I think the main historian who wrote about Jesus, besides Luke, who wrote one of the gospels)

Josephus only ever mentions Christians. It's as if the myth was already existing... As if it didn't really originate on 33ad, nor 60ad.... but 100~200bc... and only got renamed... hmmm, kinda around the time of the Teacher of Righteousness... and a very similar message.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: All 12 of Jesus' disciples (13 if you include Judas) were real people, and all of them died under execution, proclaiming Christ to their deaths (minus John, who died in exile), which Jesus actually told them would happen to them (not "You are all going to die for my sake", but He said "In the world you will have tribulation", among other references)

A Teacher and his disciples.... interesting...

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: There is an extreme LACK of "alternative events" of the NT, and there are actually over 25k manuscripts of the gospels, which is more copies than "The Iliad" and the works of the ancient Greek philosphers, and with greater consistency

How about all the gospels that didn't make the cut?
Many more than the ones that actually made it to the NT.
Aren't those representative of such "alternative events"?

There's a book detailing some of them called "Lost Christianities" by Bart Ehrman. It would do you good do educate yourself before perpetuating false news.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: The book of Acts, which follows the Gospels and proceeds Paul's letters, was considered a historical record

Perhaps parts of it, yes.
But the whole thing?? I'd take extreme caution with such blanket statements.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: There are the occasional scientific and historical predictions in the NT (there's more in the OT, and I would encourage you to Google these yourself), BUT the most interesting is that it predicts that Christianity will be a big trend and many will come to believe (that's more in Revelation)

Was that the part written after Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire?

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: The major religions you hear of with other people who headed them, Islam, Buddhism, and Hindu (those are the main ones that come to mind) all have the graves of their respective leaders available. Considering the extreme impact of Christianity on our world and culture, and I know this isn't evidence so much as just interesting and powerful, it's worth noting that Christ's grave and body are nowhere to be found

Could it be that the man was never a real man, but a mythological figure?
Could it be that the real man behind the myth lived well before the events portrayed?
Could there have been various real men, whose stories got cobbled together into a single person, with some extra magical glue to account for the extraordinary miracles?

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: Pontius Pilate (who put Jesus to death) was a real person, the Roman government was indeed an occupying force in the Jewish nation at the time, and there was a significant movement around the time of Jesus' precahing that's never really stopped, even if it's at times slowed, changed, or taken steps in wrong directions

Yes, a real person that held that real position... not exactly when the book claims... by quite a few years.


And New York exists for real, hence Spiderman stories must also be real, huh?

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: I want to help people come to Christ

I can't come I'm afraid. I'm anorgasmic.

(October 7, 2017 at 12:24 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: Hey all,

I'm a Christian, actually, still - well, I wasn't always. I'm a former atheist, and having now been on both sides, I can say I like this one a whole lot more. So, mine is more of a re-conversion story, in a sense, as a former Christian Scientist (blech) who became atheist and is now Christian. Go ahead, ask me questions and tell me about yourselves!

Do you live as Jesus told you to live?

(October 13, 2017 at 5:42 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(October 7, 2017 at 12:24 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: Hey all,

I'm a Christian, actually, still - well, I wasn't always. I'm a former atheist, and having now been on both sides, I can say I like this one a whole lot more. So, mine is more of a re-conversion story, in a sense, as a former Christian Scientist (blech) who became atheist and is now Christian. Go ahead, ask me questions and tell me about yourselves!

Do you live as Jesus told you to live?

. . . as an observant Jew who thinks it’s all coming to an apocalyptic end at any moment?

speedyj1992:

God didn't allow Jesus to sin so we could have relationship with Him, to answer that question, and to answer the next, we should expect everything from Him BECAUSE He did that. We couldn't atone for ourselves, so Jesus did, and that is an act of extreme sacrificial love such as has never been seen in literature or other religions or in the real world, because sin is infinitely bad in the eyes of God, and yet He sacrificed Jesus for us despite how bad sin mars us in His eyes. And yet we have a hard time seeing people who we disagree with in a loving way (yes, I struggle with that, too).

---

Countless people have been crucified. To this day that horrible act continues. What makes your Savior-on-a-stick so special?

I think it's hilarious when a theist newb comes here and thinks we haven't heard all of their fantasy justifications previously. 

Ya got nothing new so far speedy. Repeating what others have said previously is not helping your cause.

To the OP:

As one of the few Christian members of AF I would like to share with you my journey from being a Christian-In-Name-Only to a staunch atheist only to find myself earnestly turning back to faith in Jesus Christ with a renewed understanding of the Truth and Life only He can offer. You can find...My Story Here

It is right and proper to question your faith. Paradoxically, I think that the deeper your faith the more profoundly you question the doctrines. Doubt is not a sign of a lack of faith but rather an indication of your commitment to it.

To address one of your points directly. It does not matter if the Genesis creation story is literally true or whether evolution happened. I am a Christian. I accept evolution in general albeit with allowance for some implicit teleology. All that matters is that we recognize God alone as the Creator and Ground of Being regardless of the how. As far as I am concerned the story begins not at Gen 1:1 but rather at John 1:1.

As for the reliability of the Gospels, I am not an expert or scholar on such matters, although I can read a little bit of Hebrew, and like to follow developments in biblical archaeology.. There is quite a bit of debate, as you can see. If you read the Gospels according to the standards and conventions of classical literature of the time (such as Plutarch's Lives) most of the so-called contradictions becomes insignificant. The writers of the Gospels, like other writers of the time were less interested in factual accuracy than revealing the character and import of Jesus and His ministry. And that is what matters most. His Love and Sacrifice. Not whether a Roman centurion visited Jesus in person or by proxy.

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote:

(October 9, 2017 at 10:03 am)Bob Kelso Wrote: Why are you here? Not being a dick, legitimate question.

You guys have the best screennames - I honestly should re-watch "Scrubs" at some point. There are a couple of reasons I'm here - first, I want to help people come to Christ, because having been on both sides, I can say this is the less miserable one. It's not always sunshine and rainbows, but the tough times are less tough, and there's way more direction. I understand not everyone will agree with me, and that's okay - but my other reason is I want greater humanization in the world, because that's a huge problem. People are so quick to dismiss others because they are different for whatever reason, and yet most of us would get along a whole lot more if we put aside our biases and just listened.

Just curious if you are as motivated to help people avoid eating dishes you can't stomach? Do you always assume that what suits you will suit others? Just because you've decided to live the xtian fantasy and like it says nothing about how it would suit me. Of course, from within that fantasy which it doesn't suit me to join you in, anyone who doesn't join you is in for one hell of a bad time. Bt hey, it was your decision to enter into that fantasy; if you're uncomfortable with your new beliefs why don't you consider doing something about it - something that doesn't annoy me.

(October 13, 2017 at 11:11 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(October 12, 2017 at 11:36 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: You guys have the best screennames - I honestly should re-watch "Scrubs" at some point. There are a couple of reasons I'm here - first, I want to help people come to Christ, because having been on both sides, I can say this is the less miserable one. It's not always sunshine and rainbows, but the tough times are less tough, and there's way more direction. I understand not everyone will agree with me, and that's okay - but my other reason is I want greater humanization in the world, because that's a huge problem. People are so quick to dismiss others because they are different for whatever reason, and yet most of us would get along a whole lot more if we put aside our biases and just listened.

Just curious if you are as motivated to help people avoid eating dishes you can't stomach?  Do you always assume that what suits you will suit others?  Just because you've decided to live the xtian fantasy and like it says nothing about how it would suit me.  Of course, from within that fantasy which it doesn't suit me to join you in, anyone who doesn't join you is in for one hell of a bad time.  Bt hey, it was your decision to enter into that fantasy; if you're uncomfortable with your new beliefs why don't you consider doing something about it - something that doesn't annoy me.

I don't know of a religion that doesn't want to control who we are and what we do.