Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 12:42 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
(November 28, 2017 at 11:45 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote:  My take is simply that the universe is too beautiful to have been formed completely by itself, even given the premise of billions of years for things to randomly happen.
Does it bother you that "your take" is an argument from incredulity built out of a strawman? See what happens when you invite atheists to ask you questions..lol?  Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
(November 28, 2017 at 11:45 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote:
(November 26, 2017 at 5:26 pm)Grandizer Wrote: It doesn't matter what form of universe you live in, depending on your outlook, you are bound to see it as beautiful because in a vast world like our universe, you will see a lot of things that you will subjectively find beautiful (or be evolutionarily conditioned to view as beautiful). This perception of beauty does not logically lead to the conclusion that God must exist.

"Evolutionarily conditioned to view as beautiful" - that really stands out me. It sounds a lot like what you're saying (and please tell me if I'm wrong) has an element of design, or at least manipulation that caters to our sense of beauty. Do you consider yourself to be an atheist?

And bullshit like this tells you neither know what you're talking about, nor interested in learning. "Element of design" is nowhere evident in what Grandizer said, it is an elementary fact that evolution under certain conditions would dispose a being to aesthetically appreciate tbose conditions, provided they develop a sense of aesthetics. No design involved, just a byproduct of natural selection.
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli

Home
Reply
RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
(November 28, 2017 at 11:52 pm)Hammy Wrote:
(November 23, 2017 at 9:05 am)Aroura Wrote: I would go so far as to say that having doubts and leaving a church does not make one an atheist. Just someone having a crisis of faith. I think he's being honest, but total misunderstandings like this is why people assume actual atheists are also simply having a crisis of faith.

Hmm. I guess so far then I've been having a crisis of faith since the womb. Lol.
You still believe but have doubts? Because if you read what I wrote, there's how I was definining a crisis of faith. Reasoning your way all the way to disbelief is no longer faith anything, that's just atheism.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
Reply
RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
A lot of things seem beautiful because they produce a desirable effect in your senses -- light, colour, scent -- but if you dig a bit deeper, it isn't all roses.

Ah, roses.  Very pretty.  Love the scent.  However, you do *not* want to poke yourself with one of those thorns when puttering about in the garden, because you can get a nasty infection.

And I Heart  the M42 nebula in Orion.  Absolutely adore it.  However, it's not exactly a place you'd like to visit because of all the wild shit going on in there.

The universe is at least 99 parts chaos to 1 part order, but our brains have evolved to respond to patterns and order and tend to ignore things that are awesome in all the wrong ways.  If the universe were evidence for a god, I wouldn't want to meet that lunatic in a dark alley.
Reply
RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
(November 28, 2017 at 11:45 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: "Evolutionarily conditioned to view as beautiful" - that really stands out me. It sounds a lot like what you're saying (and please tell me if I'm wrong) has an element of design, or at least manipulation that caters to our sense of beauty. Do you consider yourself to be an atheist?

What we see is not what is "real" all that we see is a construct by our brain trying to make sense of the information it is getting and our brain has evolved to find some of those illusions pleasant for various evolutionary reasons. No design required or indeed possible.

If "design" was a factor there would not be the millions of sperm one only would be needed and it would be taken to the egg by the "designer".

(November 28, 2017 at 11:45 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: And regarding the perception of beauty not logically leading to the conclusion of God - that's going to get a lot of potentially different answers depending on who you ask. My take is simply that the universe is too beautiful to have been formed completely by itself, even given the premise of billions of years for things to randomly happen. To elaborate on my logic here, I think of it as being impossible to form something beautiful completely by accident from nothing, and an impossible event is impossible no matter how many times you try it (i.e. you will not be able to lift a car completely on your own, no machinery or anything, no matter how many times you try it because your muscles just aren't strong enough).

To try to convince someone of something it is said that you should latch onto some part of what they said that is correct and then say something along the lines of "well that is true but have you thought that perhaps this explains whatever the point is, better than what you said".

But in order for that approach to work he other party has to say something that has some truth to it, even a tiny bit of merit.

So I beg of you. Say something that is close to being possible of being true.

Coz at the moment you are giving me nothing to work with.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Would you still cook if you diddn't have to? Angrboda 41 2024 October 30, 2023 at 3:40 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Brace yourselves... Christmas is coming! T.J. 71 2730 December 25, 2021 at 11:22 am
Last Post: brewer
  Are there any active, free, text-only chat sites that are still going? Mechaghostman2 6 585 January 4, 2021 at 3:56 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
Thumbs Up Tell me YOUR weather is this screwed up. onlinebiker 5 619 April 15, 2020 at 12:59 pm
Last Post: brewer
  You can tell it' s REALLY cold out when - onlinebiker 13 1289 January 31, 2019 at 4:56 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Take It, Or leave it, I can still say Voulez Vous Brian37 7 1045 November 29, 2018 at 10:03 pm
Last Post: adey67
  (Yet Another) Tell Us About You Thread BrianSoddingBoru4 40 2581 September 12, 2018 at 6:25 am
Last Post: Lucanus
Heart Tell us your ethnicity with food pics *Deidre* 138 20260 May 19, 2018 at 5:06 pm
Last Post: Napoléon
  Tell us your age with a picture Foxaèr 74 9149 May 14, 2018 at 2:53 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  I will tell you a secret Foxaèr 16 2747 May 2, 2018 at 10:58 am
Last Post: vorlon13



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)