(October 18, 2017 at 11:49 am)c152 Wrote: I know that you'd disagree with me there, I will come to explain my reasoning behind my statement. But before that, would you say that your god is the creator of our universe and everything in it?

Yep.

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(October 18, 2017 at 1:02 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Don't you theists ever get tired of making up lies to shore up your wholly babble and your imaginary friend?   The answers to problems with the Bible are all apologetics, never anything provable, never anything that doesn't fall under "oh, you're not reading it right".

Considering that the bible is a book that gets read, yes, discussions on alleged problems with the text are naturally matters of interpretation. Why would you expect something else?

(October 18, 2017 at 1:12 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 18, 2017 at 11:49 am)c152 Wrote: I know that you'd disagree with me there, I will come to explain my reasoning behind my statement. But before that, would you say that your god is the creator of our universe and everything in it?

Yep.

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(October 18, 2017 at 1:02 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Don't you theists ever get tired of making up lies to shore up your wholly babble and your imaginary friend?   The answers to problems with the Bible are all apologetics, never anything provable, never anything that doesn't fall under "oh, you're not reading it right".

Considering that the bible is a book that gets read, yes, discussions on alleged problems with the text are naturally matters of interpretation. Why would you expect something else?

Are you kidding?  "Interpretation" is the whole problem.  "Interpretation" is why there are thousands of schisms in Protestant Christianity alone.  Funny how every preacher is so damned sure he has the "right" interpretation.  Funny how no god ever, ever shows up to say "this guy has it right".   

   Any reasonably intelligent 10-year-old can write a clear paragraph about something that they want.  But GOD always speaks in MYSTERIOUS WAYS and GOD's stories always are up for "interpretation".   That's enough evidence for me - that alone - for "god's stories" being "human fantasies used to control people".  These evil parables don't even have a whiff of deity in them . . . unless you're actually believing the con man jumping through hoops to put his "interpretation" on them.

(October 18, 2017 at 1:22 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Are you kidding? 

Nope.

Quote:"Interpretation" is the whole problem.  "Interpretation" is why there are thousands of schisms in Protestant Christianity alone.  Funny how every preacher is so damned sure he has the "right" interpretation.  Funny how no god ever, ever shows up to say "this guy has it right".

Is there a reason that I should find schisms within Protestant Christianity a problem?

Do you realize that by referencing "Protestant Christianity" you're acknowledging that there's a set of core beliefs that we agree on, and the disagreements are on lesser details?   

Quote:Any reasonably intelligent 10-year-old can write a clear paragraph about something that they want. 

If you want it distilled into a clear paragraph, read a creed, like the Apostle's Creed.

Quote:But GOD always speaks in MYSTERIOUS WAYS and GOD's stories always are up for "interpretation".   That's enough evidence for me - that alone - for "god's stories" being "human fantasies used to control people". 

First, your skepticism isn't problematic for me. Funny how you guys think we're all trying to convert you.

Second, why would something written by humans, to control humans, be difficult for humans to understand? You don't seem to think about what you're saying.

(October 18, 2017 at 1:33 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 18, 2017 at 1:22 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Are you kidding? 

Nope.

Quote:"Interpretation" is the whole problem.  "Interpretation" is why there are thousands of schisms in Protestant Christianity alone.  Funny how every preacher is so damned sure he has the "right" interpretation.  Funny how no god ever, ever shows up to say "this guy has it right".

Is there a reason that I should find schisms within Protestant Christianity a problem?

Do you realize that by referencing "Protestant Christianity" you're acknowledging that there's a set of core beliefs that we agree on, and the disagreements are on lesser details?   

Quote:Any reasonably intelligent 10-year-old can write a clear paragraph about something that they want. 

If you want it distilled into a clear paragraph, read a creed, like the Apostle's Creed.

Quote:But GOD always speaks in MYSTERIOUS WAYS and GOD's stories always are up for "interpretation".   That's enough evidence for me - that alone - for "god's stories" being "human fantasies used to control people". 

First, your skepticism isn't problematic for me. Funny how you guys think we're all trying to convert you.

Second, why would something written by humans, to control humans, be difficult for humans to understand? You don't seem to think about what you're saying.

I hear the Apostle's Creed every week.  Since I don't believe that the God they're yammering at exists, I don't consider it relevant.  So, the Bible was written by humans to control humans.  We agree on that.  So, therefore, there isn't a touch of deity anywhere in it, it proves nothing, and preachers can say that it says anything that pops into their empty little heads.  I'm down with that.  I don't see why anyone, then, would follow such a book.  (And I have most of it memorized.  I wish I could erase my brain.)  But - to each their own.  If you think the evil book of fairy tales is fun, good for you.

(October 18, 2017 at 1:37 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: I hear the Apostle's Creed every week.

So why are you whining about lack of a clear paragraph, and lack of agreement?

And why do you hear it every week? Are you like 14 or something?

(October 18, 2017 at 1:12 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 18, 2017 at 11:49 am)c152 Wrote: I know that you'd disagree with me there, I will come to explain my reasoning behind my statement. But before that, would you say that your god is the creator of our universe and everything in it?

Yep.

Okay, now this is what raises such a myriad of issues in my view and I could go very far in pointing out all of the things that are immoral, illogical and implausible with it and how little this resembles the god of the bible. 
But since the thread is on the bible and it's interpretations I'll keep it there. Here we have a god who already knowing all the harm his book will cause humanity, already knowing that his words will be interpreted in so many ways that many people are bound to get it wrong and cause physical and psychological damage to them selves and others. He knows that the bible will be heavily edited, rewritten and changed over the years and used for harm and control yet he still does nothing about it. Omniscient and all powerful he still allows all this to happen, as if he intended it. This book, with all its nasty verses condoning slavery, rape, incest, death penalties, genocide, he gives it to his people knowing full well what they will do with it when he, as all powerful, certainly could have had the bible be impossible to misinterpret.
Now, one could argue that we have free will and that it is our fault for "misinterpreting" his words but no, this is not free will. This god is supposedly omniscient and all powerful (traits that aren't really in the bible in the first place) which means that he knows every thought and action in everyone of his creations before anyone is even alive. That is not free will, because he already know the path everyone will take and since he created everything then he created the circumstances that lead that person to make every decision in his or hers life, when he equally could have created different circumstances leading to other results which would have been equally apparent as free will.  The game is rigged from the start.
So the blame is with god, an immoral being that I highly doubt exists outside our heads.

Seriously, you were just leading up to the same old free will argument?  Booooorrrrrriiinnnnggggg.

But anyway, if God predetermined our every thought, then we don't exist as autonomous beings, and don't have rights to any particular treatment.

(October 18, 2017 at 2:06 pm)alpha male Wrote: Seriously, you were just leading up to the same old free will argument?  Booooorrrrrriiinnnnggggg.

But anyway, if God predetermined our every thought, then we don't exist as autonomous beings, and don't have rights to any particular treatment.

The argument still stands never mind if it bores you. Based on the attributes you gave your god nobody ever had a choice but to "misinterpret" the bible. 
You said it yourself, he's omniscient and all powerful so if that was the case there is no autonomy. Hence immoral by our standards.

(October 18, 2017 at 2:24 pm)c152 Wrote: The argument still stands never mind if it bores you. Based on the attributes you gave your god nobody ever had a choice but to "misinterpret" the bible. 
You said it yourself, he's omniscient and all powerful so if that was the case there is no autonomy. Hence immoral by our standards.

You don't get it. I can toss a block of wood into a fire, or do anything else I like with it, and no one says that's immoral. Why? Because it's not a being with thoughts. If god has predetermined my every thought, then there is no "me." I'm just a block of wood with no rights to moral treatment.

(October 17, 2017 at 4:19 pm)Drich Wrote: because at this point knew he spoke with the authority of God and to ask anything further would force them to admit their failings and demand change. That is the same reasons the questions stop being asked of me. They hear the authority of God and rather admit a failing that demands change they turn from questions to try and destroy the person speaking or in my case my credibility.

Is that what happens then? someone proves they can answer all your questions correctly, so you stop asking any more questions! is that what happens? because I would expect the opposite of that.

"I know how to fix your car which is currently broken, see I am an accredited mechanic" (holds certificate).
"Nah that's ok just knowing you're a mechanic is enough for me".