The conservative talk-show host, Dennis Prager, wrote an article in which he compared and contrasted liberalism and leftism. HERE I would like to know if other people, particularly people who consider themselves liberal, progressive, or left-leaning consider his assessment accurate, if not particularly precise. Here is how I would summarize the comparisons made:

Liberal: skin color is irrelevant
Left: skin color is significant

Liberal: Capitalism is good with proper regulation.
Left: Capitalism is essentially exploitative.

Liberal: Love of country is a virtue.
Left: Nationalism is a vice.

Liberal: America is a beacon of freedom and land of opportunity.
Left: America is fundamentally oppressive.

Liberal: The solution to offensive speech is more speech.
Left: Offensive beliefs should be suppressed.

Liberal: The Western tradition has produced the most free, wealthiest, technologically advanced and culturally rich civilization.
Left: All cultures and civilizations are morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal.

(November 3, 2017 at 10:11 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The conservative talk-show host, Dennis Prager, wrote an article in which he compared and contrasted liberalism and leftism. HERE I would like to know if other people, particularly people who consider themselves liberal, progressive, or left-leaning consider his assessment accurate, if not particularly precise. Here is how I would summarize the comparisons made:

Liberal: skin color is irrelevant
Left: skin color is significant

Skin colour should be irrelevant. BUT to some people they use how well tanned someone is against them and the tanned ones need extra protection.

Quote:Liberal: Capitalism is good with proper regulation.
Left: Capitalism is essentially exploitative.

Capitalism is good with proper regulation but should never be used for essential services such as trains, Health and infrastructure like gas and electric.

Quote:Liberal: Love of country is a virtue.
Left: Nationalism is a vice.

Nationalism is one of the biggest evils in the world today. it sets up artificial reasons to hate and attack. liking where you live is nice, thinking it superior to everywhere else is just offensive.

Quote:Liberal: America is a beacon of freedom and land of opportunity.
Left: America is fundamentally oppressive.

Somewhere between the two but gradually moving towards oppression.

Quote:Liberal: The solution to offensive speech is more speech.
Left: Offensive beliefs should be suppressed.

Free speech has limits.
Where they are needs to be argued out.

Quote:Liberal: The Western tradition has produced the most free, wealthiest, technologically advanced and culturally rich civilization.
Left: All cultures and civilizations are morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal.

Not all cultures are equal but I would argue with the first part as well.

You do know that China is set to overtake the west in every way within the next few years don't you?

Quote:Liberal: skin color is irrelevant
Left: skin color is significant

Option C.  Skin color should be irrelevant, but it clearly isn't.

Quote:Liberal: Capitalism is good with proper regulation.
Left: Capitalism is essentially exploitative.

Option C.  Capitalism is only good when it's essentially exploitative nature is well regulated.

Quote:Liberal: Love of country is a virtue.
Left: Nationalism is a vice.

Option C.  Nationalism turns the virtue of loving ones country into a vice.

Quote:Liberal: America is a beacon of freedom and land of opportunity.
Left: America is fundamentally oppressive.

Option C.  The promise of american freedom and opportunity is subverted by oppression fundamentally instituted.

Quote:Liberal: The solution to offensive speech is more speech.
Left: Offensive beliefs should be suppressed.

Option C........these two aren't even remotely related as phrased.  Your belief that someone should be killed isn't meaningfully oppressed by insisting that you not be allowed to threaten their life.

Quote:Liberal: The Western tradition has produced the most free, wealthiest, technologically advanced and culturally rich civilization.
Left: All cultures and civilizations are morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal.

Option C.  Western civilization is an amalgam of morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal cultures; this is -why- it's produced such freedom, wealth, technology, and cultural "richness".

I think the author is confusing what he wants to believe with reality.
Left and liberal can and do cross on terms. Acting as if the 2 are non intersecting ideologies is just overly simplistic.

There are lots of different political models out there, but the one I was taught at school was a triangle. Socialism (concerned mostly with welfare) was in one corner, conservatism (concerned mostly with security) was in another and liberalism (concerned mostly with individual freedoms) completed the picture.

Politics has become more complicated than that since then. Some would argue an additional point is needed for the greens (concerned mostly with the environment). Others argue for an X/Y chart, with social freedoms on one axis (authoritarian/libertarian) and economic freedoms on the other (left/right).

None of these models are fully satisfactory; most people’s political views don’t neatly fit into a simplistic framework, and vary from within the triangle or x,y axis from issue to issue.

You simply cannot paint with such a broad brush.

I'd say Khemical does a good job of taking down all these, except for the last one.

My response would be: define "morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal" and we'll talk. Also, Japan tends to be more technologically advanced than most Western nations and isn't really considered part of the West, and many non-Western nations are culturally rich (see also Japan for just one example); it's just fairly hard to appreciate it when you're on the outside looking in.

I suspect I could make a list of potential differences between many progressives and the more jackasstic section of the left (the "social justice warrior" types who echo the mentality of the right-wing but with left-leaning sympathies), but I really don't feel like it, at least not now.

Any meaningful definition of those three terms won't change the fact that our moral, aesthetic, and intellectual value..whatever it is and by whatever metrics one chooses to define them...are the product of immigrants (both in person and in ideas) from everywhere coalescing into a recognizable whole.

Quote:Acting as if the 2 are non intersecting ideologies is just overly simplistic.

As are most conservatards.

I generally agree with Khemikal on this one.

I'd also be interested in seeing an assessment of the right from the same guy.

What a vile way of basically saying "be a good house slave"(regarding the article quote.)

Liberals are not "leftists" when we say that minorities in this country get treated more negatively on average by economics and our justice system.

(November 3, 2017 at 10:21 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 3, 2017 at 10:11 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The conservative talk-show host, Dennis Prager, wrote an article in which he compared and contrasted liberalism and leftism. HERE I would like to know if other people, particularly people who consider themselves liberal, progressive, or left-leaning consider his assessment accurate, if not particularly precise. Here is how I would summarize the comparisons made:

Liberal: skin color is irrelevant
Left: skin color is significant

Skin colour should be irrelevant. BUT to some people they use how well tanned someone is against them and the tanned ones need extra protection.

Quote:Liberal: Capitalism is good with proper regulation.
Left: Capitalism is essentially exploitative.

Capitalism is good with proper regulation but should never be used for essential services such as trains, Health and infrastructure like gas and electric.

Quote:Liberal: Love of country is a virtue.
Left: Nationalism is a vice.

Nationalism is one of the biggest evils in the world today. it sets up artificial reasons to hate and attack. liking where you live is nice, thinking it superior to everywhere else is just offensive.

Quote:Liberal: America is a beacon of freedom and land of opportunity.
Left: America is fundamentally oppressive.

Somewhere between the two but gradually moving towards oppression.

Quote:Liberal: The solution to offensive speech is more speech.
Left: Offensive beliefs should be suppressed.

Free speech has limits.
Where they are needs to be argued out.

Quote:Liberal: The Western tradition has produced the most free, wealthiest, technologically advanced and culturally rich civilization.
Left: All cultures and civilizations are morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal.

Not all cultures are equal but I would argue with the first part as well.

You do know that China is set to overtake the west in every way within the next few years don't you?

Why is it offenssive for me to think the place I live is the best place?