Remember the biblical fairy tale. It says in several places that Yahweh is going to commit numerous genocides, with the last one being the end of the world. So when 26 people get killed in a church it's nothing. Besides, Yeshua demands that believers get killed before he returns. Don't believers want Yeshua to return? They should be volunteering. Instead the preachers are bragging about carrying guns in churches. That's a complete lack of faith and you can bet that Yeshua is going to be highly ticked off if it interferes with his quota.

(November 8, 2017 at 7:18 pm)Face2face Wrote:

(November 8, 2017 at 8:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: Clearly stated?

Clearly stated my foot.  

Where is the evidence that God clearly stated this or that?
Where is the evidence that what is written in this or that book is what God said or if is true what is written in a particular book about God what about the correct interpretation of the words?

Are you aware that if you would face a judge in a court of law with no clear evidence you would lose the case?    

Even if God created the good and evil are the human being that act using their free will not God.

(color mine)

What do you mean where in the Bible is it clearly stated that God is a mass murderer?

I provided the scripture (Isaiah 45:7)

Unless pre school English has recently radically been changed, "all evil" would nicely cover any messed up thing to ever happen to humans or any other species.

You don't get it Face.  

If you would have read my post carefully you would have understood that I am not argue whether in the Bible is written or not your quotation-citation.
I instead point out to you that what is written in the Bible is not necessary what God said or even if that is what God said the interpretation of such a citation is taken in the wrong way most of the time.

Quote:That evil also includes "free will", as murderers have the "free will" to murder here on earth, according to the bible and free will is yet another thing, and God created all things.

Anything that happens is on "God" , as God is said to create all things, including the action of man. The minute you say God didn't do it, you are lying about the "holy Bible" which says in fact God did it and does it all, not just the good bits, but the messed up bits too.

Wrong again Face.  

Suppose you have some grown up kids.
You gave them life so to speak and as a father you hope that they will follow your teaching but you can not stop them if they do bad things once they are grown up.
You did your very best, unfortunately they refuse to follow your teachings.
Is that your fault?
Why should be your fault?
That is why we can not blame God for the evils that go on all the time.
Surely the free will is open to options.
This is also part and parcel of the creation.
Evolution of the consciousness and the opposite that I call DEvolution are part and parcel of this universal game.
God doesn't like to see people doing bad things but at the end everything is sorted out through the karma law and people after banging the head so many times on the wall   they finally will learn and develop enough consciousness to reach the goal of life.

Quote:Its funny most theists say God did it when good things happen, otherwise they suddenly turn of God's did and does everything power when bad things happen.

That is some fine contradiction right there.

No questions that a lot of theists do that.
I am not one of them however.  

Evolution is one way up for matter, plants and animals but is two ways up or down for human beings.
Too many people are not aware of this important factor.  

My belief is that the guy that killed all those people in Texas will be reincarnated again and again to be killed  
as many times as he killed and be wounded as many times as he wounded.
This is the karma law at work so the balance will be restored.  

(November 9, 2017 at 4:02 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(November 8, 2017 at 7:18 pm)Face2face Wrote: What do you mean where in the Bible is it clearly stated that God is a mass murderer?

I provided the scripture (Isaiah 45:7)

Unless pre school English has recently radically been changed, "all evil" would nicely cover any messed up thing to ever happen to humans or any other species.

You don't get it Face.  

If you would have read my post carefully you would have understood that I am not argue whether in the Bible is written or not your quotation-citation.
I instead point out to you that what is written in the Bible is not necessary what God said or even if that is what God said the interpretation of such a citation is taken in the wrong way most of the time.

Quote:That evil also includes "free will", as murderers have the "free will" to murder here on earth, according to the bible and free will is yet another thing, and God created all things.

Anything that happens is on "God" , as God is said to create all things, including the action of man. The minute you say God didn't do it, you are lying about the "holy Bible" which says in fact God did it and does it all, not just the good bits, but the messed up bits too.

Wrong again Face.  

Suppose you have some grown up kids.
You gave them life so to speak and as a father you hope that they will follow your teaching but you can not stop them if they do bad things once they are grown up.
You did your very best, unfortunately they refuse to follow your teachings.
Is that your fault?
Why should be your fault?
That is why we can not blame God for the evils that go on all the time.
Surely the free will is open to options.
This is also part and parcel of the creation.
Evolution of the consciousness and the opposite that I call DEvolution are part and parcel of this universal game.
God doesn't like to see people doing bad things but at the end everything is sorted out through the karma law and people after banging the head so many times on the wall   they finally will learn and develop enough consciousness to reach the goal of life.

Quote:Its funny most theists say God did it when good things happen, otherwise they suddenly turn of God's did and does everything power when bad things happen.

That is some fine contradiction right there.

No questions that a lot of theists do that.
I am not one of them however.  

Evolution is one way up for matter, plants and animals but is two ways up or down for human beings.
Too many people are not aware of this important factor.  

My belief is that the guy that killed all those people in Texas will be reincarnated again and again to be killed  
as many times as he killed and be wounded as many times as he wounded.
This is the karma law at work so the balance will be restored.  

Karma? Really? 

Stalin died in power, nothing bad happened to him during his rule, except old age.

Karma and reincarnation are poppycock too. 

Nature and evolution are a process, not a comic book. Evolution does not care if cruelty or compassion win. Bad people can go their entire lives getting away with it, and good people can suffer too and never get help. Our species is far older than any written religion or claimed superstition. 

I was not anything prior to my birth. My life now is not a result of any prior life. I will not exist after I die either. I am not so narcissistic as to think I was important 1 billion years ago, nor do I think I will be important 5 billion years from now.

Can we make a point of keeping rikky away from the newbs until they've had their inoculations? I would hate us to get sued for a H&S breach.

(November 9, 2017 at 4:02 am)Little Rik Wrote: You don't get it Face.  

If you would have read my post carefully you would have understood that I am not argue whether in the Bible is written or not your quotation-citation.
I instead point out to you that what is written in the Bible is not necessary what God said or even if that is what God said the interpretation of such a citation is taken in the wrong way most of the time.

Pretty sure OP is referring to specifically Yahwe. Not a general "god". So specifically what it says in the Christian bible. That the interpretation varies so much for most Christians is the issue. I don't care what a minority of "true believers" say. I care about where the radicalized folk are getting their ideologies.

Quote:Wrong again Face.  

Suppose you have some grown up kids.
You gave them life so to speak and as a father you hope that they will follow your teaching but you can not stop them if they do bad things once they are grown up.
You did your very best, unfortunately they refuse to follow your teachings.
Is that your fault?
Why should be your fault?
That is why we can not blame God for the evils that go on all the time.
Surely the free will is open to options.
This is also part and parcel of the creation.
Evolution of the consciousness and the opposite that I call DEvolution are part and parcel of this universal game.
God doesn't like to see people doing bad things but at the end everything is sorted out through the karma law and people after banging the head so many times on the wall   they finally will learn and develop enough consciousness to reach the goal of life.

The father analogy doesn't work because Yahwe is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient. Fathers don't have those powers. It is His fault because He knew everything that was going to happen and allowed it despite having the power to stop it and do it a better way. He can stop it. We don't have to have total free will to have some free will. God can intervene and still allow us free will. We can't have free will with an omniscient god. Even under xtian doctrine, we don't have total free will. I can't fly or simply decide to enjoy things I don't.

Quote:No questions that a lot of theists do that.
I am not one of them however.  

Evolution is one way up for matter, plants and animals but is two ways up or down for human beings.
Too many people are not aware of this important factor.  

Wut?

Quote:My belief is that the guy that killed all those people in Texas will be reincarnated again and again to be killed  
as many times as he killed and be wounded as many times as he wounded.
This is the karma law at work so the balance will be restored.  

Wut wut?

Looks like Qwraith has LR figured out, already!

LR's not new to me. Although I'm technically a noob, I lurk in the background more often than I should... Have no fear, though! Despite being familiar with LR, I've yet to figure them out :/

(November 7, 2017 at 10:46 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: INB4 poe confession.

Do poes confess?

(November 9, 2017 at 4:02 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:That evil also includes "free will", as murderers have the "free will" to murder here on earth, according to the bible and free will is yet another thing, and God created all things.

Anything that happens is on "God" , as God is said to create all things, including the action of man. The minute you say God didn't do it, you are lying about the "holy Bible" which says in fact God did it and does it all, not just the good bits, but the messed up bits too.

Wrong again Face.  

Suppose you have some grown up kids.
You gave them life so to speak and as a father you hope that they will follow your teaching but you can not stop them if they do bad things once they are grown up.
You did your very best, unfortunately they refuse to follow your teachings.
Is that your fault?
Why should be your fault?
That is why we can not blame God for the evils that go on all the time.
Surely the free will is open to options.
This is also part and parcel of the creation.
Evolution of the consciousness and the opposite that I call DEvolution are part and parcel of this universal game.
God doesn't like to see people doing bad things but at the end everything is sorted out through the karma law and people after banging the head so many times on the wall   they finally will learn and develop enough consciousness to reach the goal of life.

I've heard this excuse too many times.

Please stop comparing an omnipotent God to a non-omnipotent father.

It's soooo simple. God has the power to control his creation, a non-omnipotent non-omniscient father may not.

It's like watching two chatbots go at it after severe water damage.