I don't know, that's up to God. It's not my judgement to make. The belief is that each person is taken on a case by case basis, and since God knows each person's heart, knows their experiences, their intentions, etc, He knows exactly how much culpability they have.

If you knew what my answer would be, I'm not sure why you'd ask.

(November 11, 2017 at 6:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't know, that's up to God. It's not my judgement to make. The belief is that each person is taken on a case by case basis, and since God knows each person's heart, knows their experiences, their intentions, etc, He knows exactly how much culpability they have.

If you knew what my answer would be, I'm not sure why you'd ask.

Seeing as God is supposedly allknowing and allpowerful deity who created the world as he saw fit, I'd say the culpability falls on him.

(November 11, 2017 at 6:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't know, that's up to God. It's not my judgement to make. The belief is that each person is taken on a case by case basis, and since God knows each person's heart, knows their experiences, their intentions, etc, He knows exactly how much culpability they have.

If you knew what my answer would be, I'm not sure why you'd ask.

I want you to think for yourself.  Really THINK about it, because it's what the OP is about.  If God knows all, and if at least some people do evil by their nature (i.e. they don't actual have any capacity to do otherwise due to brain damage or serious trauma), then in what sense can such a God be good if he punishes them?  Or what if he gives them a free pass because they don't have real free will?  Even though my nature is a little less extreme, might I also argue that y own life's decisions are still just as based on my nature and the things that happen to me?

EVEN IF there's free will, free will can only sensibly be defined as the capacity to act on one's true nature, sometimes in the path of serious adversity.  But nobody has free will to define what their nature IS, do they?

Your position really is illogical, and I think "I don't know, that's up to God" isn't a statement of faith. It's really saying that with God, nonsense can become sense.

That's nonsense.

What? Where did I say God would "punish" insane people for their crimes? I've been saying the opposite this whole time.

As for saying "I don't know" in terms of people's judgement, I don't see how that response doesn't make sense. I can't see inside a persons mind. Of course I don't know.

(November 11, 2017 at 10:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What? Where did I say God would "punish" insane people for their crimes? I've been saying the opposite this whole time.

As for saying "I don't know" in terms of people's judgement, I don't see how that response doesn't make sense. I can't see inside a persons mind. Of course I don't know.

What's the absence of punishment, in your view?  A ticket to heaven?  So Charlie Manson, if he's legit crazy, he's got a 1-way ticket to Paradise?  

You keep dodging the OP, and because you're a nice lady, people let it slide.  But I want to challenge you.  There are all kinds of horrors in the world, and I think many of the ones committing them are often the victims-- because that's how people work.  This combination of the idea of free will and the God idea is quite possibly the most toxic idea in humanity, because it's so entirely ridiculous, and yet believed by so many.

If God is real, and good, and powerful, why does God let monsters rip children limb from limb?  Why does he let ill people, who have no free will due to compulsions beyond their control, suffer and bring so much suffering to others?  Why does he allow drugs to exist which corrupt the will, when some of those who end up addicted to them are so due to no real fault of their own?

Stop fucking saying you don't know.  If you don't know, you should drop your delusional religious beliefs, because all evidence points to God, if there is such a being, having no interest at all in saving humanity, or in rewarding the good for their goodness.  When are you going to wake up and recognize that you are clinging to a book of lies, and not even very credible ones, and that outside the window of your ivory tower, there is real harm that will never be alleviated because half the world have their heads stuck in the sand?


Please get this.  Your religion is not mostly harmless.  It's not an issue of personal choice and belief.  It's a cancer on the world-- one that makes facts opinion and opinion facts, and the world is by far a worse place for its existence.  It's the nice ones like you that sustain an institution of theft, of rape, of war, of control over the minds of the populace.  The devil, you can see coming.  An angel like you is much more insidious, much more harmful-- because the weak-minded of the world might actually listen to you.


I believe in evil, too.  And the first principle of evil is that the most deleterious lies are sugar-coated and spun like cotton candy. How nice!

Benny Boy, I don't know why you are asking me if Charlie Manson went to Hell after I've made it perfectly clear multiple times that I don't know who does/does not go to Hell. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be about this, so ill say it one more time: I don't know who goes to Hell. I don't know if Charlie Manson went to Hell. If I *had* to take a guess, id say yes, but i cant claim that because i dont know, and neither am i supposed to know. It's specificslly not my place, and we are warned against these types of judgements on other people's souls.

I can't see inside other people's minds. I haven't seen their whole lives, all of their experiences, their motivations, what lead them to act as they do, etc. My belief is that God knows all that, so He knows exactly how much culpability a person has. But I don't. So I don't know whether any given person went to Hell. As for free will, I'll just be going in circles if I say all the same things I said before. You don't agree with it, fine. I dont care and am not trying to convice anyone here, just sharing my own points of view. So I don't know what else to tell you on that.

Whats really fucking annoying is that you dont accept my honest answer and you're accusing me of dodging the OP even though i've already answered to it (basically accusing me of being dishonest in my answers). I don't know what else say to someone who won't take what I say at face value. Kind of impossible to have a discussion with someone like that.

Listen, I've delt with you in the past where you treated me like shit, accused me of rape apology, insinuated I'm not the person on my avatar picture, and pulled the same shit that people "go easy on me" because I'm nice and because "the person on my avatar picture is hot".

...And now you're literally sitting here telling me I'm insidious and equating me with the Devil.

Lol. As you can imagine, you're not exactly my favorite person around here, and the minute you start to pull the same bullshit and attacking me on a personal level, is the minute I lose all respect for you and start ignoring you. Theres no reason for me to take the time to have a conversation with the real fucking pricks of the forum. Goodbye asshole.

(November 12, 2017 at 2:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Whats really fucking annoying is that you dont accept my honest answer and you're accusing me of dodging the OP even though i've already answered to it (basically accusing me of being dishonest in my answers). I don't know what else say to someone who won't take what I say at face value. Kind of impossible to have a discussion with someone like that.

I like like that you'll saying "fucking", very down to earth of you.

(November 12, 2017 at 2:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Listen, I've delt with you in the past where you treated me like shit, accused me of rape apology, insinuated I'm not the person on my avatar picture, and pulled the same shit that people "go easy on me" because I'm nice and because "the person on my avatar picture is hot".

...And now you're literally sitting here telling me I'm insidious and equating me with the Devil.

Lol. As you can imagine, you're not exactly my favorite person around here, and the minute you start to pull the same bullshit and attacking me on a personal level, is the minute I lose all respect for you and start ignoring you. Theres no reason for me to take the time to have a conversation with the real fucking pricks of the forum. Goodbye asshole.

I really, really like that you'll stand your ground and call an asshole an asshole on occasion. It isn't your go-to move, but it's good to know you have it in your pocket for special occasions. Now you'll probably have to say a "Hail Mary" or two for losing your temper but, lets face it, it's worth it right?

(November 12, 2017 at 2:43 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 12, 2017 at 2:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Whats really fucking annoying is that you dont accept my honest answer and you're accusing me of dodging the OP even though i've already answered to it (basically accusing me of being dishonest in my answers). I don't know what else say to someone who won't take what I say at face value. Kind of impossible to have a discussion with someone like that.

I like like that you'll saying "fucking", very down to earth of you.  

(November 12, 2017 at 2:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Listen, I've delt with you in the past where you treated me like shit, accused me of rape apology, insinuated I'm not the person on my avatar picture, and pulled the same shit that people "go easy on me" because I'm nice and because "the person on my avatar picture is hot".

...And now you're literally sitting here telling me I'm insidious and equating me with the Devil.

Lol. As you can imagine, you're not exactly my favorite person around here, and the minute you start to pull the same bullshit and attacking me on a personal level, is the minute I lose all respect for you and start ignoring you. Theres no reason for me to take the time to have a conversation with the real fucking pricks of the forum. Goodbye asshole.

I really, really like that you'll stand your ground and call an asshole an asshole on occasion.  It isn't your go-to move, but it's good to know you have it in your pocket for special occasions.  Now you'll probably have to say a "Hail Mary" or two for losing your temper but, lets face it, it's worth it right?

What sucks is I was actually starting to forgive and forget this douche fucker for the shit he pulled on me last year. Turns out he's still the same old cunt. Oh well.

Here's my childish behavior for the day: deleting the rep I gave him a month ago. Whoops.

Oh yeah, well I just went and updated your rep, you salty talking Catholic lady you.

@Cathlolic_Lady losing one mind is a bigger sin than homosexuality, I know why I became insane, I traced my footsteps, giving up the trust of reason from God with respect to health, and giving up God's well being entrusted to us, is way worse than distorting the trust of sexual attraction and remaining on the nature we are upon regarding that.

There is not one of us who fell to insanity before our falling, who God shows the way to hold on to our health and reason and take his help, but our lack of resolve and lack of serenity and patience, and our lack of appreciating reasoning and health, and our giving into despair over that of hope, fear over that of courage, we were overcome with the affliction. Our biggest aspect of our sin was lack of trust in his help in times of peril and need.

Humans have different burdens they are due and there are different hues of sin.