(November 29, 2017 at 3:52 am)Godscreated Wrote: Let me ask you this, do you believe those you described shouldn't have a chance of salvation?

No . . . it's God's priories that I take issue with. Salvation should be based on whether the person has learned a lesson, not whether they accept Jesus Christ . . . because that's completely irrelevant. If someone hasn't learned their lesson and is still willing to kill, rape and murder then so what if they accept Jesus? And if someone has learned their lesson, then Jesus isn't required.

By "learned their lesson", I'm not talking about genuine remorse either. If someone is a psychopath born without a conscience but they have been punished severe enough that they've changed behaviorally and they're unwilling to commit any more crimes out of fear of punishment . . . then such a person should have a chance at salvation. It's the behavior that's important, not what feelings someone feels privately in their mind and whether they genuinely care or not. I do think that a truly good God would give everyone a chance . . . but based on good behavior not based on belief in Jesus.

If I were a good God, I wouldn't give a shit if someone believed in me or not . . . all that would matter is that they weren't a bad person.

(November 27, 2017 at 6:44 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Cod Wrote: Well tell us then. Can I murder someone, then repent and accept Jesus for the prize? Tell us.

 Not with the attitude you have in responding to my post, repentance is humbling yourself before God and admitting you are a sinner. many have committed murder and later with sincerity repented of what they have done, from the smallest thing to the largest thing. By the way there is no prize, we receive a gift from God and that is total forgiveness, it is unmerited and totally free. Unless you are willing to accept Jesus for who He is the answer to your question is no.

GC

Well I don't accept an untrustworthy hippy preacher to be anything more than what he WAS. Namely an untrustworthy hippy preacher.
The day I apologize and beg forgiveness from an invisible hippy, is the day I've lost my marbles.

(November 21, 2017 at 3:48 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Eternal punishment for temporary crimes and eternal heaven for temporary work? It sounds unnatural. And yet people preach it like it's perfect God's word.

And people also preach what the bible teaches, In that the wicked people bodies/souls are destroyed/consumed by Hell.

And or an invitation to Work for God for eternity.

(November 29, 2017 at 4:16 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Cod Wrote: Well tell us then. Can I murder someone, then repent and accept Jesus for the prize? Tell us.

Of course! Lord Jealous forgives the murderers and rapists and welcomes pedophiles if they bow to him, but he punishes the unconvinced, no matter how good in their heart they are, simply because they don't believe.

That makes jesus out to be something of a cunt.  Oh well, I have no problem with that.

(November 29, 2017 at 3:52 am)Godscreated Wrote: You believe Christianity is wrong because you do not understand it.

GC

You're a broken fucking record, GC. We understand your bullshit beliefs just fine. We just don't share them. Religious beliefs, and your particular brand of bullshit in particular, are repugnant to anyone with a moral compass that hasn't been broken by indoctrination.

(November 29, 2017 at 4:17 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 10:18 pm)Haipule Wrote: Aloha GC:

"Repentance" is a stupid ecclesiastical word! The biblical Greek word is metanoia and is first the prefixed preposition meta which means; with, as in loose association, plus noia which means: mind.

Jesus asked that we all become 'with-minded', 'fellowship-minded'. He did not say "repent" to people He did not know! Or, to anyone on-target!

"Sin" is a stupid Latin word! The biblical Greek word is hamartia and means: off-course, off-target, miss, errant, astray, wrong way, dead-end. It's about where your going, and not what you are doing. A "sinner" then is hamartia in it's adjective form used substantively for a wayward individual.

Biblical "forgiveness" means: to be released from the payment of a debt. All mankind was parabasis, paraptOma, hamartia. The price was paid nearly 2,000yrs ago. It is a done deal you cannot add to nor take away from. "It is finished!" Just say, Thank You! Your dept is paid! And you are free! 

"Humility" before God is to be humbled. Not arrogantly "humble".

"Salvation" is a stupid French word! The biblical Greek word is sOtEria and means: deliverance, preservation, made whole, kept safe and sound, recue from harm, right here, right now as we live TODAY and every moment of our breathing lives!

"Faith", from the Greek biblical word pistos means: To trust in your inventory of ideas that you have built from the study of God's Word and living life. Academic knowledge of God's Word is not experiential understanding of the zOE-life of His promise! "Faith" is not blind!

God's offer to you is zOE-life and He is the only source. Not and church's ecclesiastical "salvation"! But, life abundant here and now! Will you accept God's offer of life?! Or, the church's mess!  

I do not "believe" in Jesus! I trust Him is His way, truth and life! I have NEVER been disappointed!

  Are you disagreeing with me or agreeing. I understand what Jesus has taught through the inspired word we call the Bible. The  word definitions you give are Greek and they often have meanings that are many words where the English language generally uses one or two words. The meanings are generally the same or at least understood to be the same and those words are not stupid they are what we who speak English use.

  I believe what I described was pretty much the same as you were trying to say, I do not need the Greek to understand what the Bible says, I do use the Greek words to clarify some passages when needed. Please tell me the difference between belief and trust, I see them as one and the same?

GC

Really? Are you blind? To "believe" is to accept the nonsense you have been fed! To trust is to be fed by the One whom promised to feed you when that is impossible for you! The difference is HUGE! One is academic nonsense! The other is survival!

The people on this forum call themselves atheists. I see more love in them then ANY Christian forum I've ever been on! These people are NOT useless! They are valuable! So what? They don't except your useless "gospel"?

The Bible separates sheep from goats, not 'believers' and 'unbelievers'! Many of the people I have met here are not biblical goats! They are just unique sheep whom love and wish to me useful! And that, without the ecclesiastical nonsense!

Do you know why many here are atheist? Because the alternative is to be useless! It's not their fault that the universal church completely sucks!

You attack the autographed language of Paul and Peter? Your understanding of God's word is NOT God's word! Your just hundreds of years of, "Polly want a Cracker?!"

(November 30, 2017 at 2:05 am)Haipule Wrote:

(November 29, 2017 at 4:17 am)Godscreated Wrote:   Are you disagreeing with me or agreeing. I understand what Jesus has taught through the inspired word we call the Bible. The  word definitions you give are Greek and they often have meanings that are many words where the English language generally uses one or two words. The meanings are generally the same or at least understood to be the same and those words are not stupid they are what we who speak English use.

  I believe what I described was pretty much the same as you were trying to say, I do not need the Greek to understand what the Bible says, I do use the Greek words to clarify some passages when needed. Please tell me the difference between belief and trust, I see them as one and the same?

GC

Really? Are you blind? To "believe" is to accept the nonsense you have been fed! To trust is to be fed by the One whom promised to feed you when that is impossible for you! The difference is HUGE! One is academic nonsense! The other is survival!

No I'm not blind, I've been given sight by the God of the universe because I have believed. I live in a relationship with Him, a relationship that has given me great joy and one where I do not condemn other Christians (except when they are completely out of line) because we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are to live a life to uphold the name of Christ as Savior of this world. 
 You on the other hand are just playing around with words and taking away from lifting Christ before others.

Haipule Wrote:The people on this forum call themselves atheists. I see more love in them then ANY Christian forum I've ever been on! These people are NOT useless! They are valuable! So what? They don't except your useless "gospel"?

The gospel that I adhere to is the only one by which you can be saved, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father and the One who sends the Holy Spirit to us. I'm not sure what gospel you might adhere to but I can tell you this if it's not the one of Jesus Christ you are in as much trouble as the atheist here. 
 If this little stunt is to gain popularity with the atheist here then shame on you for even associating yourself with the God of the universe. I might not be very popular here with some or even most of the atheist but I do give them the truth about my God and Savior, so you go right ahead and play around with words and in the end we will see where that gets you.

Haipule Wrote:The Bible separates sheep from goats, not 'believers' and 'unbelievers'! Many of the people I have met here are not biblical goats! They are just unique sheep whom love and wish to me useful! And that, without the ecclesiastical nonsense!

No it doesn't, Christ is the one who will separate the sheep and the goats, the Bible is a book to guide people to salvation and then guide those who choose God in a living relationship with Him. You my friend are the one full of nonsense. Actually I have great doubt that you are nothing other than a fraud because you are misrepresenting the gospel of Christ.

Haipule Wrote:Do you know why many here are atheist? Because the alternative is to be useless! It's not their fault that the universal church completely sucks!

The atheist here are responsible for their unbelief, not the church. God doesn't have to work through the church to reach out to people, He does it many times by single individuals that are a part of the greater church. I've never said the atheist here are useless, what I have said is they are useless for the work of God. He will use them to exalt Himself and in a case like that they are very much of a use to God. The more you talk the more I suspect you are not who you say you are.

Haipule Wrote:You attack the autographed language of Paul and Peter? Your understanding of God's word is NOT God's word! Your just hundreds of years of, "Polly want a Cracker?!"

  Tell me were do I attack Peter and Paul and how exactly do I do this thing you accuse me of? Who has made you the judge of other Christians? Do you have answers to these questions if so I would very much love to see them.

GC

(November 29, 2017 at 4:16 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Cod Wrote: Well tell us then. Can I murder someone, then repent and accept Jesus for the prize? Tell us.

Of course! Lord Jealous forgives the murderers and rapists and welcomes pedophiles if they bow to him, but he punishes the unconvinced, no matter how good in their heart they are, simply because they don't believe.

That's actually an idea found in the Jewish Babylonian Talmud, which states that no rabbi will go to hell because his good deeds outweigh his bad deeds, whatever they might be.

(November 30, 2017 at 2:59 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(November 30, 2017 at 2:05 am)Haipule Wrote: Really? Are you blind? To "believe" is to accept the nonsense you have been fed! To trust is to be fed by the One whom promised to feed you when that is impossible for you! The difference is HUGE! One is academic nonsense! The other is survival!

No I'm not blind, I've been given sight by the God of the universe because I have believed. I live in a relationship with Him, a relationship that has given me great joy and one where I do not condemn other Christians (except when they are completely out of line) because we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are to live a life to uphold the name of Christ as Savior of this world. 
 You on the other hand are just playing around with words and taking away from lifting Christ before others.

Haipule Wrote:The people on this forum call themselves atheists. I see more love in them then ANY Christian forum I've ever been on! These people are NOT useless! They are valuable! So what? They don't except your useless "gospel"?

The gospel that I adhere to is the only one by which you can be saved, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father and the One who sends the Holy Spirit to us. I'm not sure what gospel you might adhere to but I can tell you this if it's not the one of Jesus Christ you are in as much trouble as the atheist here. 
 If this little stunt is to gain popularity with the atheist here then shame on you for even associating yourself with the God of the universe. I might not be very popular here with some or even most of the atheist but I do give them the truth about my God and Savior, so you go right ahead and play around with words and in the end we will see where that gets you.

Haipule Wrote:The Bible separates sheep from goats, not 'believers' and 'unbelievers'! Many of the people I have met here are not biblical goats! They are just unique sheep whom love and wish to me useful! And that, without the ecclesiastical nonsense!

No it doesn't, Christ is the one who will separate the sheep and the goats, the Bible is a book to guide people to salvation and then guide those who choose God in a living relationship with Him. You my friend are the one full of nonsense. Actually I have great doubt that you are nothing other than a fraud because you are misrepresenting the gospel of Christ.

Haipule Wrote:Do you know why many here are atheist? Because the alternative is to be useless! It's not their fault that the universal church completely sucks!

The atheist here are responsible for their unbelief, not the church. God doesn't have to work through the church to reach out to people, He does it many times by single individuals that are a part of the greater church. I've never said the atheist here are useless, what I have said is they are useless for the work of God. He will use them to exalt Himself and in a case like that they are very much of a use to God. The more you talk the more I suspect you are not who you say you are.

Haipule Wrote:You attack the autographed language of Paul and Peter? Your understanding of God's word is NOT God's word! Your just hundreds of years of, "Polly want a Cracker?!"

  Tell me were do I attack Peter and Paul and how exactly do I do this thing you accuse me of? Who has made you the judge of other Christians? Do you have answers to these questions if so I would very much love to see them.

GC

Did you receive sight from the Catholic or, the Protestants? If you say you received sight from God then; who is stupider: the Catholic or the protestants?

Which "only Gospel" do yo adhere to?

Gospel

The word translated as “Gospel” in the English Newer Testament(covenants) is the Greek neuter noun “euaggelion”. The “gg” is pronounced like “ng”.

The modern English word, “Gospel” comes from the old English word “god-spell or, godspel(both with long O’s)” which means “good-spell” referring to “good-news”.

The English words “evangelist” and “evangelism” are the Latinized transliterations of the Latin word “evangelium” which was transliterated from the Greek word “euaggelistEs”.

“euanggelion” means “well-message” or, “beneficial-announcement”, with the prefixed adverb “eu”, meaning “well” in the sense of “beneficial”(it does not mean good as eu is an adverb not an adjective) and “aggelion” refers to a “message” or “announcement”. Yet, its most basic meaning is “the reward for giving a well/beneficial-message/announcement”.

Hyper-Literal: and-also I-am-asking and-also you(masculine singular) (2)Genuine(vocative masculine singular adjective) (1)Partnership(vocative masculine singular adjective--together-with-yoke, Paul is asking that the two women become like one masculine [ ]Partnership! Genuine! ) (3-)be-taking-together to-same(feminine plural) whoever(feminine i.e., any other female) in thee (reward for)well-message, they-competing-together* to-me with(loose association) and-also of-Clement and-also of-thee rest-all fellow(together-with)-workers of-me of-whom-all thee-all names/fame in [ ]scroll of-zOE-life. Phil 4:3


Well/Beneficial vs. Good

Side by Side: How then will(in the future-) they(acting upon themselves-) (on-)call(-ing) [on Him] in(-to) whom (2)they [have] (1)not (3-)believed(-trusting)*? [Yet] How will(in the future) they believe(trusting)* [in Him] (of-)whom they [have] not heard(hear)*? And(Yet) how will(in the future) they (-be-)hear(-ing) without(apart-from) [a](of-one-keeps-on-)preacher(heralding)? [Yet] How will(in the future) they (-be-)preach(heralding) unless(if-ever) [no] they [are] sent(they-might-be-being-from-arranged i.e., being arranged separate from the kosmos-world)* ? Just(down-from) as it is(has-been-) written(passive, Isa 52:7), "HOW(as, comparatively) BEAUTIFUL(the season of blooming forth in all beauty) [ARE] THE FEET OF[-thee] THOSE WHO BRING(always  bringing) GOOD NEWS(eu--adverb + aggelizO, ones-keep-on-well-announcing ) [peace], OF[-thee] [ones-keep-on-well-announcing] GOOD THINGS(agatha, neuter accusative plural of the adjective agathos--good)!" Rom 10:14-15 NASB

Notice how the translators followed future tenses with past tenses--goofy! They are clueless of the present!


Any Well-Message vs. Thee Gospel

Well-message(gospel) of the (rulership)kingdom(Matt 4:23); well-message(gospel) of Jesus(Mark 1:1); well-message(gospel) of the Son(Rom 1:9); well-message(gospel) of thee Anointed-One(Rom 15:19); well-message(gospel) of thee Master(2 Thess 1:8); well-message(gospel) of thee glory of thee Anointed-One(2 Cor 4:4); well-message(gospel) of the glory of thee abundantly-wealthy God(1 Tim 1:11); well-message(gospel) of God(Mark 1:14); well-message(gospel) of thee joyous-favor(Acts 20:24); my(Paul’s) well-message(gospel--Rom 2:16); our(Paul, Silvanus, Timothy) well-message(gospel--1Thess 1:5); well-message(gospel) of thee deliverance(Eph 1:13); well-message(gospel) of thee peace(Eph 6:15).
A well-message or, beneficial-announcement, then, is any message, or announcement, which is beneficial to the hearer! A message concerning the “Lake of Fire” may not be “good” news to some but, it is beneficial!

Indeed, Paul called his entire book to the Romans (all roads, at that time, led in and out of Rome, actually Civitavecchia) his “well-message” or, “beneficial-announcement” and speaks about it (I believe/trust until corrected) in his letter to the Colossians:

Side by Side: Which[of-thee--well-message, beneficial-announcement from verse 5] has come(one-always-being-present) (in-)to you(-all), just(down-from-authority) as [and-also] in all the (kosmos-)world (and-)also it is constantly bearing fruit [and increasing], even(down-from-authority) as [and-also] it has been doing in you(-all) also since(from) the(which) day you(-all-) heard(hearing)* of it and(-also) [you-all-] (on-over)understood(realize) the grace(joyous-favor) of [-thee] God in [ ]truth; Col 1:6 NASB

Hyper-Literal(same verse): of-thee(well-message, beneficial-announcement from verse 5) one-keeps-on-being-present into you-all, down(from-authority)-as and-also in all thee kosmos-world and-also it-is one-thing-constantly-bearing-fruit, down(from-authority)-as and-also in you-all from which day you-all hearing* and-also you-all on-over-realize thee joyous-favor of-thee God in [ ]truth; Col 1:6

Whenever I hear a teacher teaching, they often use the word “gospel” with the assumption that it could only mean one thing, and they also assume, that we know what that “one thing” is. Yet their use of the word “gospel”, also, to me, means only one thing--CONFUSION!

"Salvation" is a useless French word! Transliterated, from the useless to English, Latin word "salvationem". If this teaching is from transliterations then, what does the autographed Greek language of the bible sOtEria mean as Paul wrote it? I'll give you a hint: NOT "salvation"!

The church is responsible for YOUR belief: NOT God! God is responsible for my trust: NOT me! Completely independent of the clergy!

By the way, someone asked you a question. Let me answer it:

Hyper-Literal: For(assigning a reason) thusly He-agapaO-loves*, thee God, thee kosmos-world even-as-and-also thee Son of-Him-same, namely--thee uniquely-begotten-One, He-gives* that(purpose) any thee one-keeps-on-trusting(not one decision but a continuous attitude of trust) into Him-same no he-might-be(acting upon himself--stupidly)-be-rendered-useless (IOW, Keep on trusting and you can't screw it up) but-rather he-might-be(and keep on)-having zOE-life(feminine), breath-being-belong-to-her(right here, right now). John 3:16

It's quite beautiful in the Greek. Theology doesn't honor the Greek. Theology only honors theology. They manipulate the Greek with high sounding manipulative grammar tools in their bag of tricks to teach their theologic prejudice of what those words MUST mean.

If they translate it that way into English, then they will have a difficult time with:

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15 NASB

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you(-all) know that no murderer has eternal(breath-being-belonging-to-her) (zOE-)life(feminine) abiding(making its home) in him (right here, right now). 1 John 3:15 NASB

"Book of LIFE" No name--Lake of Fire! Book of life, book of life, book of life--not "book of the saved"! Who made you the judge of what "life" is?

---

Aloha GC:

You might be wondering by what authority I speak:

You have probably heard of some of my teachers; Moses, David, Jesus, John, Paul, Peter, James. Man O’ Man, those guys said and wrote some amazing things!
The word “things” in this passage is not in the original language but where added by translators to identify the neuter gender. It actually refers to a smaller mixed group of males and females. I am among that group of foolish, weak, base, despised, things that are not. Therefore, I am perfectly qualified to do what I do! I have been nurtured, cleansed, purified, trained, built, and approved, by God, for this purpose!

(November 29, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Drich Wrote:

(November 21, 2017 at 3:48 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Eternal punishment for temporary crimes and eternal heaven for temporary work? It sounds unnatural. And yet people preach it like it's perfect God's word.

And people also preach what the bible teaches, In that the wicked people bodies/souls are destroyed/consumed by Hell.

And or an invitation to Work for God for eternity.

A job offer?  So..inflicting boils on petulant believers?  Flinging explosive rocks at cities?  Leading a cohort of mujahideen into knee deep blood in the glorious name of the Emperor?

Or more along the likes of hiding wallets so god can "find" them?

Wage, benes, pension? Company picnics maybe? Is it a coed workspace and hows the internet connection? I don't wanna get stuck on the Peen Patrol for shit pay again, is all I'm saying.