If the genders were reversed in this story, people would be having a different reaction.

Sex crime is sex crime no matter how we arrange the genders, though we do seem to have some strange ideas that it isn't, as a society - which probably would lead to a few changes in how some of us react to the scenario.

Ladies, don't go round grabbin dicks at random, you might get decked.

(January 4, 2018 at 11:20 am)Khemikal Wrote: Sex crime is sex crime no matter how we arrange the genders, though we do seem to have some strange ideas that it isn't, as a society - which probably would lead to a few changes in how some of us react to the scenario.

Ladies, don't go round grabbin dicks at random, you might get decked.

If a girl high on ecstasy came up and grabbed a guy's dick at a music festival, and his reaction was to beat the shit out of her, nobody would be going "oh he's so brave.."

Of course I'm being facetious. The genders are different and the level of potential violence between them is different and the level of sexual violence men can inflict on women compared to vice versa is different.

Perhaps, but only because of our strange ideas about how mixing around the genders in a hypothetical scenario where all else is being considered equal somehow changes the nature of the situation.  The example of the x addled pill popper yanking a crank brings that directly into focus again. Guy -or- girl, somebody grabs my dick out of nowhere and I'll probably give them an elbow (there's no need to reverse the genders and the fact that we discuss it in that way brings our strange ideas into focus -again-).

Speaking only for myself, I don't think either example is an example of bravery, I simply think that a person who gropes has handed a free ticket to whomever they groped to be punched in the face (or kneed in the groin, or hammer fisted hard on the tits...fellas, that;s how you get a girl off ya, I'm giving you the solid line on a sexual self defense strategy here. ). 

Guy, girl, hell..if you grope a dog I say the dog is within it;s moral boundaries to bite the shit out of you and still be a good, good dog.

To hell with philosophy. Every person has the right to bodily inviolability. Violate that at your own risk.

This is why philosophy is horseshit. It seeks to make the simple complex.

"Seems to" being the operative portion.  Shell nailed it a few pages back.  This is all really uncomplicated to anyone who isn't a bastard.

(January 4, 2018 at 11:29 am)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(January 4, 2018 at 11:20 am)Khemikal Wrote: Sex crime is sex crime no matter how we arrange the genders, though we do seem to have some strange ideas that it isn't, as a society - which probably would lead to a few changes in how some of us react to the scenario.

Ladies, don't go round grabbin dicks at random, you might get decked.  

If a girl high on ecstasy came up and grabbed a guy's dick at a music festival, and his reaction was to beat the shit out of her, nobody would be going "oh he's so brave.."

Of course I'm being facetious.  The genders are different and the level of potential violence between them is different and the level of sexual violence men can inflict on women compared to vice versa is different.

She didn't "beat the shit out of" him, she basically whacked him a few times.

If a girl grabbed a guys penis, I'd totally support a defensive or retaliatory slap or smack, as that is about the same level this is at.

If he beat the shit out of her, then you are comparing apples and oranges anyway.  Facetious or not.

A recurring theme of the thread.  My favorite was when sex crime was compared to offensive ideas.  

Philosophically speaking, it's easy to see why this happens.  The notions which inform us of why sex crime is wrong are so fundamental and so well established (at least on their own grounds, mind you) that one cannot present a lucid ethical theory to the contrary.  A system which includes sex offense as "possibly okay sometimes based on opinions" is not an ethical system at all - whatever that system is it's not discussing what we are referring to in any ethical system. So, one has to "just ask questions" about something else entirely, change the particulars of the situation, or imagine that some specific but contextually irrelevant change to the particulars has an effect -on the ethical system- that it does not.

Thus: "Isn't this a problem for moral realism?". LOLNope. Moral realism as a category soundly and necessarrily comes down against sex offense regardless of whether that realist position is religious or secular, supernatural or hard materialist. Regardless of whether moral compulsion in that system is derived from virtue ethics, duty obligation, contract, construct, super rational benevolence, or cynical pain avoidance. There;s literally no end of reasons why sex offense is wrong -and- harmful...even if harm is not wrong. Worst case scenario..some specifi thing -about- the harm caused is what makes it morally wrong in any anti-realist framework. For example, it being wrong because, in gods opinion, sex offense causes the "bad harm"..not the "good harm".

(January 3, 2018 at 9:17 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: hmm sorry but I don't agree with her decision. Yeh what the guy did was absolutely wrong and he got off way too easy for what he did, but see, I believe there should be a minimum amount of decency to be expected from a civilized person, and the least bit of common sense to be careful around drunk people. I don't think going around naked in public is a "right", nor do I want to see bottomless dudes walking around with painted dicks, or topless women with painted boobs...

There is a minimum amount of decency. Men can go topless, women should be able to go topless too. Comparing breasts to dicks makes no sense. Breasts aren't reproductive organs.

Sex offense isn't about reproduction, it's about sex.  Comparing tits and dicks makes an equal and valid comparison to the nature of -sex- offense. We're not talking about people trying to have someones babies, we're talking about groping, lol.

Fuck it, though, would it be less of a sex offense if some guy came up and started playing with your nipples and blowing you kisses, lol?