(January 17, 2018 at 1:41 pm)Hammy Wrote: What's the claw?

And woah I did NOT read about him chasing any girl around on the OP. Okay he's totes a predator then. Lol.

All I read was that they were having sex and she never told him to stop but she decided afterwards that it wasn't very fun so she decided to accuse him of rape. It takes two to have good sex! It's not like bad sex is 100% the guy's fault. Nor is "I didn't enjoy it" grounds for "So I guess he must have raped me then."

If the dude chased her around demanding sex until she gave in... then that totally is sexual assault.

(January 17, 2018 at 1:44 pm)Shell B Wrote: She never said chased.

(January 17, 2018 at 1:43 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(January 17, 2018 at 1:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He didnt chase her around the house.

From her account, he did.

"But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game."

(January 17, 2018 at 1:41 pm)Hammy Wrote: What's the claw?

Quote:She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”

Quote:She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, “He [made out] with me again and says, ‘Doesn’t look like you hate me.’”

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.

Quote:“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She’d never seen it before. She said that’s when the reality of what was going on sank in. “It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible.”

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away. She remembers “feeling in a different mindset at that point.”

“I remember saying, ‘You guys are all the same, you guys are all the fucking same.’” Ansari asked her what she meant. When she turned to answer, she says he met her with “gross, forceful kisses.”

(January 17, 2018 at 12:48 pm)Khemikal Wrote: To be clear, they're being labeled as such for creepy predatory behavior?  It would be preturnatural to pick up every cue..positive or negative.  It stretches my ability to believe a person when they say they could see absolutely -no- signs of a negative, though...when the events are what we have described to us....and in this case..she seems to recall giving repeated verbal cues in addition to the "non-verbal feelings potentially at play" which..in her case..sounded rather more like in effect, than potentially at play.  If I had a night like that, with some girl mumbling that we were all the same and trying to halt the penis party every here and there...I'd have been -reaching- for a notarized consent form with her picture ID embossed and signed in her own blood.  To me, the writing was on the wall.  If he didn't notice it at all, but doesnt deny her version of events..and that's his suspisciously lawyerly claim.....then he might actually be a danger to himself or others as a genuinely oblivious sexual predator.  

I think it's more likely that he's a garden variety creep...and at least to some extent he knows that.  That he did notice her objections..and he felt that he overcame them in the pursuit fantasy he was obviously playing at.

Quote:Say, look what happens when we engage in open dialogue on a subject instead of letting the conversation get shut down by blanket accusations of victim blaming?  😏

Quote:Meh, lol.  

On the reas, though, my open dialogue on this one is that the difference between what ansari did and rape is one of degree, not category - off on a technicality.

(January 17, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(January 17, 2018 at 1:43 pm)Mermaid Wrote: From her account, he did.

"But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game."

That reads really weird to me. I don't know how to take that. Maybe he "chased" her, but I think it seems to leave out a lot. If it went on for thirty minutes, we don't get to hear a lot of dialogue and other actions she must have left out. If he just followed her around jamming his fingers in her throat, silently and with no other actions, that's beyond creepy, but I sincerely doubt that's precisely how it went down. The subtleties are missing, and those would be necessary to making a clear assessment.

(January 17, 2018 at 1:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think there's quite a difference between being chased and being followed. If I were to describe being chased by a man around his house, I'd say I was running away from him and he was running after me trying to catch me. And that absolutely would be assault, and extremely scary, no question. However, that is not at all what the article says.