1. The brain is very complex.
2. Humans throughout history have not understood the brain.
3. If the brain is the source of morality and goodness,  then most of humans throughout history have not understood how that is even possible given they have not understood the brain.
4. If we don't know it's possible the source of morality and goodness is the brain and naturalism is true (no spirits, no mystic reality, etc), then we aren't justified in belief in morals and morality.
5. If we aren't justified in beliefs in morals and goodness, then goodness is an illusion.
6. Goodness is not an illusion.
- Therefore naturalism is not true.
7. If naturalism is not true, then it is possible to justify belief in morality and goodness.
-thus We are justified in belief in morals and goodness.
8. If we are justified we must all know we are justified.
9. Without knowing the source of morality even in case of naturalism being false, we aren't justified.
-thus Therefore we know the source of morality.
10. The source of morality giving how important morality is by definition the most sacred and important thing to be valued.
thus-God exists.

MK : You are just making this shit up. Fucking mental masturbation!

(January 20, 2018 at 5:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1. The brain is very complex.
2. Humans throughout history have not understood the brain.
3. If the brain is the source of morality and goodness,  then most of humans throughout history have not understood how that is even possible given they have not understood the brain.
4. If we don't know it's possible the source of morality and goodness is the brain and naturalism is true (no spirits, no mystic reality, etc), then we aren't justified in belief in morals and morality.
5. If we aren't justified in beliefs in morals and goodness, then goodness is an illusion.
6. Goodness is not an illusion.
- Therefore naturalism is not true.
7. If naturalism is not true, then it is possible to justify belief in morality and goodness.
-thus We are justified in belief in morals and goodness.
8. If we are justified we must all know we are justified.
9. Without knowing the source of morality even in case of naturalism being false, we aren't justified.
-thus Therefore we know the source of morality.
10. The source of morality giving how important morality is by definition the most sacred and important thing to be valued.
thus-God exists.

'I'm Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room, our top story tonight..... NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN!"

MK, the "argument from complexity isn't an argument solely argued by Muslims. You've been on this website for years now, you know, or should know, we have CHRISTIANS who also make this bullshit argument.

YES, the human brain IS COMPLEX, but not because of any sky hero, but because of EVOLUTION. 

Humans simply are a different species, with different attributes. WE could not do what penguins at the south pole could do in surviving WITHOUT shelter or cloths. WE cant breed as fast as cockroaches or bacteria. We CAN choke on our food and die because we share the same breathing and eating tube, whereas dolphins and whales DONT have that same problem. IF humans get stupid and  start a nuclear war, we are far more likely to KILL OURSELVES off than we are to survive. COCKROACHES have a much better shot at surviving such a worldwide disaster.

WE are NOT, as a species special to this 4 billion year old planet. Since the start of evolution there have been 5 mass extinction events, as to which what you see now is only 1% remaining. 

Our planet was NOT put here for one species, much less our species. WE are simply 1 species and not even the oldest species or most successful. The WATER BEAR, can survive several hundred degrees above zero in extreme heat, and several hundred degrees below zero in extreme cold WITHOUT building shelter. THE WATER BEAR has also survived ALL 5 mass extinction events on this planet.

Humans have only been around in our current form for 200,000 years. WE are advanced thinkers, but that does not make us important, it just means we have bigger brains. The fact that you are not using yours proves that is not always a good thing.

(January 20, 2018 at 5:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: <snip>

Genuine question: What broke you?

When I first came here you were a reasonable, friendly person who believed in his religion but didn't shove it down everybody's throat. The last few months you've been the worst kind of dogmatic ideologue.

What broke you so hard that you changed so radically?

You mean why I stopped doubting the proofs of God I very well knew and now am adamant about them?

You keep giving these lists, and it never gets far before I have some kind of problem with it.

(January 20, 2018 at 5:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You mean why I stopped doubting the proofs of God I very well knew and now am adamant about them?

If your argument is that our species is better than any other, then go to the south pole, take off all your cloths and try to survive in sub zero temps.

NO, I am NOT recommending that. Just saying HUMANS ARE NOT SPECIAL.

I am sorry it bothers you that the prospect of being finite frightens you, but it should not. Being finite and not existing forever SHOULD NOT scare you. I am not saying kill yourself, not one bit. I am saying nobody knew who I was, or you were 4 billion years ago. 

I live my life fine without a sky hero. I feel love, I have ups and downs in my life. I simply DO NOT chalk any of that up to old books of mythology.

I still want to live as long as possible. I still miss my late mother. I am looking forward to visiting my long time friend in Australia next month. BUT NO, I do not think I am special to this planet, nor to I think I will be remembered 5 billion years from now. All I can do RIGHT NOW, is enjoy the time I have now. I am fine with that.

(January 20, 2018 at 5:37 pm)Chad32 Wrote: You keep giving these lists, and it never gets far before I have some kind of problem with it.

Yes you have a problem with a premise, but the problem you have is from you.  Nice of you to at least acknowledge that much.

The next question, are you justified in disagreeing with any of the premises? That is another question.

(January 20, 2018 at 5:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1. The brain is very complex.
2. Humans throughout history have not understood the brain.
3. If the brain is the source of morality and goodness,  then most of humans throughout history have not understood how that is even possible given they have not understood the brain.
4. If we don't know it's possible the source of morality and goodness is the brain and naturalism is true (no spirits, no mystic reality, etc), then we aren't justified in belief in morals and morality.
5. If we aren't justified in beliefs in morals and goodness, then goodness is an illusion.
6. Goodness is not an illusion.
- Therefore naturalism is not true.
7. If naturalism is not true, then it is possible to justify belief in morality and goodness.
-thus We are justified in belief in morals and goodness.
8. If we are justified we must all know we are justified.
9. Without knowing the source of morality even in case of naturalism being false, we aren't justified.
-thus Therefore we know the source of morality.
10. The source of morality giving how important morality is by definition the most sacred and important thing to be valued.
thus-God exists.

Sorry, your argument fails starting at #3. it gets much worse after that.

"5. If we aren't justified in beliefs in morals and goodness, then goodness is an illusion.
6. Goodness is not an illusion."

No, morals and the idea of "goodness" is defined by culture, one culture may think it's good to deny women a vote or ban them from driving, another may think it's good to keep black people as slaves