(January 20, 2018 at 3:35 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 20, 2018 at 2:46 pm)FFaith Wrote: I am not against the immigration, so I agree that we should not assume people are guilty because their country sucks.

I don't think Trump assumed that his words would be released to the media (but he should know better by now), so I don't think he was pandering to anyone if his comments were not meant to be made public.

Bullcrap. He himself called himself a genius. He is a racist and panders to racists.

Yes, I know he panders to racists.

(January 20, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Aegon Wrote: Why does everybody act like the US used to be this great country that welcomed immigrants of all kinds. Exclusion acts, racist violence... in the 1910s Italian immigrants in the south were lynched. And let's not even talk about the anti Chinese propaganda. Every generation hates immigrants and wants nothing to do with them. Especially non white migrants. It's a testament to the social construct of race, actually: an Alabama  (I believe it was Alabama) state court ruled in the early 20th century that Italians were as black as the blackest negro and thus should not have the right to vote.

It's Christopher Columbus 2.0.  We just like thinking we're amazing.  Isn't it better to believe our immigration was motivated by altruism, and not the need for warm bodies to toss in the wood chipper.

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(January 20, 2018 at 4:46 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Haiti is radically religious.  Norway has more people identifying as atheist than theists.  I don't remember, do you guys prefer religious zealots or atheists?  Do you prefer atheists because you're racist?

Their level of religiosity is justification to keep them out .

Would you prefer religious zealots or atheists?  It's not a trick question. Which do you think would be better for our country?

(January 20, 2018 at 3:21 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 20, 2018 at 2:38 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Does being from a shithole country mean we shouldn't take someone in? Funny, I thought our principles were exactly the opposite:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

― Emma Lazarus (on the Statue of Liberty)

Emma Lazarus was a Zionist who didn't have America's interests as a priority.  We should give the damn statue back to the French and stop singing that racist song.

Whatever the politics of the moment, it is how our country was founded and exemplifies the best of our immigrant nation and our values. We accept those from shithole countries *because* they are from shithole countries (like Ireland was, or Eastern Europe...the list goes on and on).

(January 20, 2018 at 5:18 pm)wallym Wrote:

(January 20, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Aegon Wrote: Why does everybody act like the US used to be this great country that welcomed immigrants of all kinds. Exclusion acts, racist violence... in the 1910s Italian immigrants in the south were lynched. And let's not even talk about the anti Chinese propaganda. Every generation hates immigrants and wants nothing to do with them. Especially non white migrants. It's a testament to the social construct of race, actually: an Alabama  (I believe it was Alabama) state court ruled in the early 20th century that Italians were as black as the blackest negro and thus should not have the right to vote.

It's Christopher Columbus 2.0.  We just like thinking we're amazing.  Isn't it better to believe our immigration was motivated by altruism, and not the need for warm bodies to toss in the wood chipper.

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(January 20, 2018 at 4:46 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Their level of religiosity is justification to keep them out .

Would you prefer religious zealots or atheists?  It's not a trick question.  Which do you think would be better for our country?

Why does anyone think in such stupid black and white either/or binary bullshit?

I am for ANYONE who is for human rights, and keeping religion and government SEPARATE. I also DO NOT agree with every atheist I run into just because I hold the "off position".

I DO think RIGHT NOW we are being held hostage by one class, one party and our far right Christians. None of that last sentence is calling for a government forced end of ANY religion. But it certainly is a call to stand up to theocratic minds.

Quote:Would you prefer religious zealots or atheists?  It's not a trick question.  Which do you think would be better for our country?

I don't define immigrants on their level of religiosity . Nor their contribution to society on it. Atheists can be every bit as evil as religious people .And highly religious people can be as good as any atheist . Your comment is reductionism on a moronic scale .

I generally consider you live proof of this

(January 20, 2018 at 5:49 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Would you prefer religious zealots or atheists?  It's not a trick question.  Which do you think would be better for our country?

I don't define immigrants on their level of religiosity . Nor their contribution to society on it. Atheists can be every bit as evil as religious people .And highly religious people can be as good as any atheist . Your comment is reductionism on a moronic scale .

I would say at least in the west, with the less religious or flat out atheists, IN THE WEST, liberals in general both theists and atheists lean to a more empathetic view on their fellow humans. I do not agree that god is needed to have that empathy, but I certainly am quicker to side with a liberal theist than I am say, an Ayn Rand or Che supporting atheist.

(January 20, 2018 at 5:49 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Would you prefer religious zealots or atheists?  It's not a trick question.  Which do you think would be better for our country?

I don't define immigrants on their level of religiosity . Nor their contribution to society on it. Atheists can be every bit as evil as religious people .And highly religious people can be as good as any atheist . Your comment is reductionism on a moronic scale .

I generally consider you live proof of this

I love it.  The outrage that I would be reductionist towards religious people.  And to think I did it on this forum too.  Where the religious are treated fairly as and individuals!  Good on you to stand up for your principles in the face of such egregiousness!  I'm glad you could take some time away from Kudo'ing all of Minimalists "Religious people are all shit" posts to come call me out on this.

(January 20, 2018 at 10:29 am)wallym Wrote: Regarding Haiti, you can read about their issues on the interwebs.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restavek  Is a fun one.  People risk their lives fleeing Haiti for a reason.

Full flights leave from the U.S. to Haiti on a daily basis, v.s the very small amount that risk their lives to get here, when was the last time you heard of a boat full of refugees trying to get to the U.S.?

What Haiti doesn't have are social programs. There's no welfare, no social security, no foster care, Haiti is about being on that grind, no matter if you're young, old or crippled, Haitians are very hard working people. That being said My mother-in-law is Haitian, she personally has around 15 people living at her house, that do housework for room and board.

There was a time in England where kids as young as 4 swept chimneys, so every country has been a "shithole" at one point or another, and Haiti has only been recognized as country for just under 160 years.

America built it's wealth off of free African Labor, If reparations were to be paid, it is estimated the U.S. would owe 14 trillion dollars as stated in a Newsweek article.



So slavery is the only reason America is in the position it's in, without slavery America doesn't exist.

(January 20, 2018 at 8:29 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(January 20, 2018 at 10:29 am)wallym Wrote: Regarding Haiti, you can read about their issues on the interwebs.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restavek  Is a fun one.  People risk their lives fleeing Haiti for a reason.

Full flights leave from the U.S. to Haiti on a daily basis, v.s the very small amount that risk their lives to get here, when was the last time you heard of a boat full of refugees trying to get to the U.S.?

What Haiti doesn't have are social programs. There's no welfare, no social security, no foster care, Haiti is about being on that grind, no matter if you're young, old or crippled, Haitians are very hard working people. That being said My mother-in-law is Haitian, she personally has around 15 people living at her house, that do housework for room and board.

There was a time in England where kids as young as 4 swept chimneys, so every country has been a "shithole" at one point or another, and Haiti has only been recognized as country for just under 160 years.

America built it's wealth off of free African Labor, If reparations were to be paid, it is estimated the U.S. would owe 14 trillion dollars as stated in a Newsweek article.



So slavery is the only reason America is in the position it's in, without slavery America doesn't exist.

NO SHIT,

But how am I responsible for what started 400 years before I was born?


Saying we SHOULD NOT repeat the past, does not mean today's population is responsible for what their ancestors did. Does it make sense to blame today's German population for what Hitler's Germany did?

"Sins of the father" is what white Europeans sold and is the basis for the bullshit fall of Adam and Eve. 

IT IS ALSO why I hate the decades beef between Palestinians and Jews. 

There has to be a point where all sides think about humanity, instead of perpetuation. I don't want to see blacks or Muslims or Jews or Christians die. I DO want to see my fellow humans accept we are not a separate species.

"They started it" has a shelf life. 

YOU CAN remember, and SHOULD remember the cruelty our species can inflict on each other, but we cannot, nor should be so stuck in the past that we remain divided.

SLAVERY sucked, and was HORRIBLE, and just like the Holocaust, and even today, just like the Palestinians are getting the short end of the stick. Nothing gets solved between humans when we forget we are not a separate species.

Quote:!  I'm glad you could take some time away from Kudo'ing all of Minimalists "Religious people are all shit" posts to come call me out on this.

I don't kudos everything only instances were religious people act like shit .That does not mean i agree that they are all shit. If only went after religious people . Then i should be kudosing everything you say just because it's anti religious . I would never criticize Ayn Rand just because she was an atheist . I would never criticize Sam Harris either .Or Court Jester . Or a million other atheists i think are  douchebags and hold disgusting opinions . And as for theists on this site not treated fairly i believe a good portion of the members would object to your characterization .So this ignorant attempt at showing some kind of imagined hypocrisy fails spectacularly .