They lie about everything else, why not that?

(February 1, 2018 at 6:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 8:20 am)Grandizer Wrote: Huggy, that's fine. You're not a Trinitarian, so it's a waste of time arguing about something neither you nor I believe in. You can make a new thread for what you're arguing about.

Then what is the purpose of your op? Trolling? I've just shown that the Trinitarian doctrine can't be supported scripturally, yet you ignore that and continue to troll.

Do you not realize that the early Christian were devout Jews that still kept the law? No Jew would ever accept Three separate Gods, that would break the first commandment. They have always worshipped one God

Do you worship Jesus specifically or do you worship Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies, who is supposed to be his daddy?

Were you baptized just in the name of Jesus or were you baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit?

So do you worship one entity or do you worship three?

(February 1, 2018 at 7:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They lie about everything else, why not that?

"Lie" is such a harsh term, let's just say they are big on retroactive continuity.

(February 1, 2018 at 7:29 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 6:50 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Thanks for the information.  

But the trinity is mentioned in Matthew 28:19 (NOG) = "So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

If I remember correctly, this was added later to the text. So not in the originals.

Yeah, especially since later on apostles disobey this order and baptize in another name

Acts 10:48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Still, since actual Trinity is not defined in Bible theologians could have picked other three to be trinity, like Jesus, Peter and Paul and every time their names are mentioned together...

(February 1, 2018 at 7:41 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: "Lie" is such a harsh term, let's just say they are big on retroactive continuity.

IDK if they are that big on continuity. If the bible was a sci-fi anthology, there would be nerds grabbing pitchforks over the NT.

(February 1, 2018 at 7:29 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 6:50 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Thanks for the information.  

But the trinity is mentioned in Matthew 28:19 (NOG) = "So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

If I remember correctly, this was added later to the text. So not in the originals.

When was that passage added, 1870 A.D.?

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(February 1, 2018 at 7:44 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 7:29 pm)Grandizer Wrote: If I remember correctly, this was added later to the text. So not in the originals.

Yeah, especially since later on apostles disobey this order and baptize in another name

Acts 10:48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Still, since actual Trinity is not defined in Bible theologians could have picked other three to be trinity, like Jesus, Peter and Paul and every time their names are mentioned together...

Being baptized in the just the name of Yeshua was a Way cult ritual.  In Christianity people are baptized in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

(February 1, 2018 at 6:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 8:20 am)Grandizer Wrote: Huggy, that's fine. You're not a Trinitarian, so it's a waste of time arguing about something neither you nor I believe in. You can make a new thread for what you're arguing about.

Then what is the purpose of your op? Trolling? I've just shown that the Trinitarian doctrine can't be supported scripturally, yet you ignore that and continue to troll.

Do you not realize that the early Christian were devout Jews that still kept the law? No Jew would ever accept Three separate Gods, that would break the first commandment. They have always worshipped one God

So Grand isn’t allowed to debate with other Christians who hold beliefs which differ from yours?  Is he allowed to debate Muslims and Jewish folk, or would that be considered ‘trolling’ as well? Why don’t you take it up with your fellow Christians?

I love this answer from the billygraham.org site. It just shows that, no matter how SteveII tries desperately to make the Trinity logical by reducing "nature" in the context of the Trinity to mere abstract nature, that other Christians (likely more well-versed than he) accept that the Trinity is beyond human comprehension, and there's no way to make sense out of this.

Here's what they say (and note especially the final paragraph!!):

Quote:The Bible shows very clearly that there is only one God, and yet that there are three personal distinctions in His complex nature, traditionally referred to as “three Persons in the Godhead”—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Each is distinct from the others but never acts independently. They are one in nature and purpose. This mystery is called the doctrine of the Trinity, though that term is not used in the Bible. The teaching, however, is present in seed form in the Old Testament and is revealed explicitly in the New Testament. Note passages such as Matthew 28:19; John 10:30, 14:26; 2 Corinthians 13:14.

Our finite minds cannot understand or explain this mystery of God, which is nevertheless a fact. We must accept the truths found in the Word of God by faith even though we ourselves cannot comprehend them fully; read Hebrews 11:1, 3, 6 and 1 Corinthians 2:5-10, 14; 13:12.

It is really not surprising that the infinite God should be complex in His nature beyond the ability of finite humans to comprehend! This doctrine is absolutely essential to New Testament Christianity. Theologians have pointed out that if it were not true, the Bible would be unreliable, Christ would not be divine, and His death on the cross would not atone for our sins, being merely the death of a martyr.

https://billygraham.org/answer/can-you-e...ity-to-me/

At least, they're being honest, whoever came up with that answer.

(February 1, 2018 at 7:24 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(February 1, 2018 at 7:18 pm)Haipule Wrote: Jesus is both God and man and there is nothing else like Him. "Trinity" is catapult trajectory calculations born from a 2nd century clown named Tertullian.

I'm curious, Haipule...

So you are a nontrinitarian/unitarian? But Jesus is divine? Holy spirit is just God's bad breath?

I am a pre-denominationalist. I translate the bible according to it's languages. The Greek is a precise language. The Greek bible interprets itself precisely. There is no wiggle room.

Theology is the brain child of theologians whom don't know the difference between the dative or genitive case, they do not know Greek pronouns. They do not know the aorist tense or middle voice. They call the middle-passive voice 'deponent' which then becomes an opinion. They also invent stuff like 'the dative of means' to change the meaning of words. They also invented aktionsart to explain anarthrous through the opinion of qualitati which is also ridiculous.

Because they are illiterate in Greek language thinking skills, they just made stuff up as they went. They blame it all on their invented "Holy Spirit" through which, they cannot lie being the appointed clergy "filled with the Spirit" even though, the pastor down the street, whom they disagree with, says the same thing about themselves and the idiot down the street.  

Please remember Sir that the Roman Catholic Church was a dominant political power even through the De Medici family which produced four popes. They could not be questioned without the threat of death!

So, the bible to you is the Wizard in the sky with a magic book! So you are arguing rightfully with theology with it's Wizard in the sky with a magic book! I do not question this behavior or why you do it. I do the same thing! Which is why I am banned from Christian Forums.

So, you atheists get to argue against the truly stupid and burn the candle at both ends. The reason you can do this is because of the bold faced lie of "Christianity"!

The bible never established "Christianity": the truly stupid did that with their bag of tricks! Which tricks are taught in seminary school from parrots to parrots to teach more parrots!

"Bad breath" only comes from leftist liberal humanistic democrats. All I can say is, "Would you like a tic-tac?"

-said the other idiot, down the next street. You're all making shit up, lol...the people who wrote magic book were making shit up too, and the most accurate translation of made up shit is still made up shit. It's the one thing you all have in common. The genuine christian tradition.