(February 6, 2018 at 8:44 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 8:30 am)Grandizer Wrote: Wow, that's one effective way to demotivate someone from seeing a doctor, even when they're very ill.

Yep.  I mean, obv that number moves up or down depending on your income bracket, but still.  If you have to go see a doctor, get blood work, and then get an imaging test done, you’re probably looking at at least a couple thousand dollars in out of pocket expenses right then and there.  It’s absurd.

I got no clue how the system runs there exactly, but even if one can afford to pay that much in a year, if something bad were to happen to that person, that's money gone to waste that could have been used to pay off mortgages and bills and whatever (unless there are different coverages for the more serious stuff, I don't know). What could have happened instead was pay a bit more in tax to ensure free/cheap universal health care for all so that you don't have to worry about such high potential expenses and people are more inclined to go see a doctor. If I'm not mistaken, that would also save more money a year, especially for those who have to pay high premiums for their insurance. But what do I know? I'm just an idiot when it comes to economics.

(February 6, 2018 at 9:02 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 8:44 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Yep.  I mean, obv that number moves up or down depending on your income bracket, but still.  If you have to go see a doctor, get blood work, and then get an imaging test done, you’re probably looking at at least a couple thousand dollars in out of pocket expenses right then and there.  It’s absurd.

I got no clue how the system runs there exactly, but even if one can afford to pay that much in a year, if something bad were to happen to that person, that's money gone to waste that could have been used to pay off mortgages and bills and whatever

Exactly.  But, according to Alpha, everyone should be able to have like, 10k saved up, just for obnoxious insurance expenses, and if they don’t, then they’re just lazy.  Back in my twenties I had a bleeding ulcer that required a blood transfusion, an endoscopy, and three nights in a hospital bed. My final bill was over 30K.  It’s almost laughable.  Where do you live, Grand?

(February 6, 2018 at 9:07 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 9:02 am)Grandizer Wrote: I got no clue how the system runs there exactly, but even if one can afford to pay that much in a year, if something bad were to happen to that person, that's money gone to waste that could have been used to pay off mortgages and bills and whatever

Exactly.  But, according to Alpha, everyone should be able to have like, 10k saved up, just for obnoxious insurance expenses, and if they don’t, then they’re just lazy.  Back in my twenties I had a bleeding ulcer that required a blood transfusion, an endoscopy, and three nights in a hospital bed. My final bill was over 30K.  It’s almost laughable.  Where do you live, Grand?

Damn, sorry for you. That would've really angered me if that had happened to me.

I live in Australia ... where Medicare is actually a thing for young people as well. Sydney, specifically.

(February 6, 2018 at 9:16 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 9:07 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Exactly.  But, according to Alpha, everyone should be able to have like, 10k saved up, just for obnoxious insurance expenses, and if they don’t, then they’re just lazy.  Back in my twenties I had a bleeding ulcer that required a blood transfusion, an endoscopy, and three nights in a hospital bed. My final bill was over 30K.  It’s almost laughable.  Where do you live, Grand?

Damn, sorry for you. That would've really angered me if that had happened to me.

I live in Australia ... where Medicare is actually a thing for young people as well. Sydney, specifically.

Do you find you have trouble getting access to care?

(February 6, 2018 at 9:28 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 9:16 am)Grandizer Wrote: Damn, sorry for you. That would've really angered me if that had happened to me.

I live in Australia ... where Medicare is actually a thing for young people as well. Sydney, specifically.

Do you find you have trouble getting access to care?

In general, not really. If I need to see a doctor for check ups or because I got the flu or whatever, I present them my Medicare card, and that's that. It doesn't cover everything, of course. But it takes care of the essentials for a lot of people.

In Portugal, Universities are mostly public... including med-school.
When doctors finish up their degree, they have to practice for a few years on a public hospital, before they're allowed to set up their own practices or work at some private hospital... or stay in the public hospital system. Many of these that stay grow up to become teachers of future doctors... they're the ones who really care for medicine, I guess.
Most hospitals throughout the country are also public hospitals, ie not paid for out of pocket nor by insurance - the income for staff, supplies and equipment, as well as upgrades, comes from the state budget.

Of course, since they have to care for basically the whole population, there ends up existing a waiting list for most services. But emergency ones always take priority. Some tests, like X-rays or CT scans can be outsourced to the private sector, where the client can go to the private clinics, carrying the required credential, and pay only the price that the clinic agreed with the Ministry of Health. I remember paying some 15€ for an ear CT scan some years ago.
It's not a perfect system and just last year there was the news of some poor guy who was in the hospital's emergency waiting room... and died there - it's shocking for its rarity... but it shows that, regardless of income, regardless of your ability to pay for anything, the system works, for the most part. It's not perfect, but it works.
And yes, we all pay for it through mandatory taxation. Our taxes have basically two components, one is standard tax which we coincidentally call IRS (Tax on income by singular individuals, with it's commercial counterpart IRC for businesses) and then we have Social Security which serves for both health service contribution and retirement "fund". You can always then add your own private health insurance and extra retirement fund(s) to the package, of course, if you want and can afford them.

It has its problems... but it mostly works.

I'm not saying the US should implement something like this country-wide, but perhaps it should be encouraged on a state-by-state basis.

Quote:Alpha’s reasoning is a lot like Sam Kinison’s, now that I think about it. Too bad they couldn’t have collaborated; they’d have all the world’s problems solved by now.

Kinison on world hunger:

“You want to help world hunger? Stop sending them food. Don't send them another bite, send them U-Hauls. Send them a guy that says, ‘You know, we've been coming here giving you food for about 35 years now and we were driving through the desert, and we realized there wouldn't BE world hunger if you people would just live where the FOOD IS! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! UNDERSTAND THAT? YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT! NOTHING GROWS HERE. NOTHING IS EVER GONNA GROW HERE! Come here, you see this? This is sand. You know what it's gonna be 100 years from now? IT'S GONNA BE SAND! We have deserts in America, we just don't live in them, assholes!"

Uh no lady then Beta would have to endure the indignity of all filthy brown people from "shitholes" countries .

(February 5, 2018 at 11:09 pm)Joods Wrote: Let's not forget that the current minimum wage isn't even a livable wage. No one can live off of minimum wage as a single person. Try doing that with a family.

Precisely.

I used the Canadian healthcare system 70% of my life and never once have i waited more then an hour to get into a hospital . The general reason most people wait longer. Is because people don't use the government services right or effectively . And no i'm not pulling an Beta the government needs to do more to inform people . But the problems are not the stuff Beta's focusing on . Nor  is it an indictment of single payer healthcare(which is still better for profit)

(February 6, 2018 at 10:01 am)pocaracas Wrote: I'm not saying the US should implement something like this country-wide, but perhaps it should be encouraged on a state-by-state basis.

We do, actually.  We have teaching hospitals attached to universities where you can get reduced price (and sometimes free at point of access) care.  OFC..that means that Medi-bros are yanking out your molar on a half dose of nova the morning after a wicked kegger....but beggars can't be choosers, amiright?