(February 18, 2018 at 7:15 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 5:14 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: Not interesed in the topic but from what I read Occam's Razor is used by scientist to postulate theories not to chose answers. Am I wrong?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

In science, Occam's razor is used as a heuristic guide in the development of theoretical models, rather than as a rigorous arbiter between candidate models.

Given all other things equal, the more parsimonious explanation among two or more competing explanations is considered the more reasonable explanation. Whether it's really true or not is not what Occam's razor is used to determine.

By the way, pretty sure theories in science are NOT postulated, but rather "concluded" as an explanation for evidence discovered repeatedly and conclusively. Or at least they're not postulated in quantitative research.

Yes , well said " given al things equal" betwen two explanations the simpler one is prefered , wich is not valid here because this are 2 different theories .
Postulated is the right word , there are an infinite number of ways to express a conclusion, the simpler one is prefered not become Occam's Razor is some ultimate logic model but due to the fact that a simpler hypothesis is easyer to test .

This was actually in the introduction of the link but you haven't bothered to read it.

(February 18, 2018 at 7:27 am)notimportant1234 Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 7:15 am)Grandizer Wrote: Given all other things equal, the more parsimonious explanation among two or more competing explanations is considered the more reasonable explanation. Whether it's really true or not is not what Occam's razor is used to determine.

By the way, pretty sure theories in science are NOT postulated, but rather "concluded" as an explanation for evidence discovered repeatedly and conclusively. Or at least they're not postulated in quantitative research.

Yes , well said " given al things equal" betwen two explanations the simpler one is prefered , wich is not valid here because this are 2 different theories .
Postulated is the right word , there are an infinite number of ways to express a conclusion, the simpler one is prefered not become Occam's Razor is some ultimate logic model but due to the fact that a simpler hypothesis is easyer to test .

This was actually in the introduction of the link but you haven't bothered to read it.

I don't see "postulated" anywhere in the intro, at least not with reference to "scientific theory". But even if it is in there somewhere, it would be more appropriate to say that they are established through repeated testing of its predictive and explanatory power, but I guess you can also say "postulated" given a certain context and/or interpretation (such as theories postulate this and that). But it's not generally just an educated guess (like a scientific hypothesis).

(February 18, 2018 at 7:40 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 7:27 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: Yes , well said " given al things equal" betwen two explanations the simpler one is prefered , wich is not valid here because this are 2 different theories .
Postulated is the right word , there are an infinite number of ways to express a conclusion, the simpler one is prefered not become Occam's Razor is some ultimate logic model but due to the fact that a simpler hypothesis is easyer to test .

This was actually in the introduction of the link but you haven't bothered to read it.

I don't see "postulated" anywhere in the intro, at least not with reference to "scientific theory". But even if it is in there somewhere, it would be more appropriate to say that they are established through repeated testing of its predictive and explanatory power, but I guess you can also say "postulated" given a certain context and/or interpretation (such as theories postulate this and that). But it's not generally just an educated guess (like a scientific hypothesis).

I do see your point , I may have missused "postulated". But my objection was that the one who used it described is an instrument of logic, wich is not why Occam's razor is used.
If I would use Occam's Razors in this topic I will use it to chose a religion not to see if it is true or false . Using it the prefered religion would be Deism because it makes the fewest asumptions.

(February 18, 2018 at 7:44 am)notimportant1234 Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 7:40 am)Grandizer Wrote: I don't see "postulated" anywhere in the intro, at least not with reference to "scientific theory". But even if it is in there somewhere, it would be more appropriate to say that they are established through repeated testing of its predictive and explanatory power, but I guess you can also say "postulated" given a certain context and/or interpretation (such as theories postulate this and that). But it's not generally just an educated guess (like a scientific hypothesis).

I do see your point , I may have missused "postulated". But my objection was that the one who used it described is an instrument of logic, wich is not why Occam's razor is used.
If I would use Occam's Razors in this topic I will use it to chose a religion not if it is true or false . Using it the prefered religion would be Deism because it makes the fewest asumptions.

That's not true. Occam's razor can be used as both a nonscientific and a scientific tool of logic. Really, all the principle of parsimony is about is that the simpler explanation/theory/hypothesis, among competing explanations/theories/hypotheses, is the most reasonable explanation, given all else equal (which is practically impossible AFAIK), and simplicity being in terms of the number of assumptions made.

Of course, in practice, this is not always the most effective tool of logic to rely on. But theoretically, it makes sense.

If there's one thing I would disagree with AFTT47, it's that "no explanation" or "I don't know" is not an explanation, so you can't ever call it a "winner" among "competing" explanations, even in terms of parsimony, simply because it isn't even an attempt to explain what can be observed.

Also, deism doesn't make fewer assumptions than naturalism. Given deism, an extra entity is assumed, unlike with naturalism. But yes, if comparing to other theistic beliefs, then yes, deism would probably be the most parsimonious explanation.

Actually, the BEST religion is Wicca.  Why?  Because Wiccans never come to my door and threaten me with punishment for not believing in the Goddess.

Boru

(February 18, 2018 at 7:59 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, the BEST religion is Wicca.  Why?  Because Wiccans never come to my door and threaten me with punishment for not believing in the Goddess.

Boru

Don't they also dance around naked! another plus in my book.

(February 18, 2018 at 1:46 am)Nimbus Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 1:44 am)Astreja Wrote: What's to explain?  We don't believe in your god.  The combination of ludicrous supernatural events described in the Bible (floods that never happened, magical fruit, people coming back from the dead) and dubious historicity (no evidence for the Exodus; no contemporaneous secular reports of Jesus even as a non-supernatural entity in Roman-occupied Judea circa 30 CE) leads me to believe that the Christian religion is based on mythology and simply cannot deliver on its promises and threats.

 Well, no one alive today was born back then, so I guess no one can really speak about that with 100% certainty.

I was.

Incidentally, saying xtianity is the best religion is like saying explosive diarrhoea is the best way to spend an afternoon.

(February 18, 2018 at 8:12 am)Cyberman Wrote: Incidentally, saying xtianity is the best religion is like saying explosive diarrhoea is the best way to spend an afternoon.

Or saying that jock itch is better than athlete's foot.  It's still a fungus that does no one any good.

Boru

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(February 18, 2018 at 8:01 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 7:59 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, the BEST religion is Wicca.  Why?  Because Wiccans never come to my door and threaten me with punishment for not believing in the Goddess.

Boru

Don't they also dance around naked! another plus in my book.

One can dance naked without the strictures of religion.  Trust me on this one.

Boru

(February 18, 2018 at 6:05 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(February 18, 2018 at 3:24 am)Nimbus Wrote:  So you don't think Christianity is the best religion?

What I mean is, I think you’re a troll.  

I'm not a troll, LadyForCamus, I'm just asking for a conversation, and ya'll are giving me one.