(March 2, 2018 at 12:27 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(March 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Except Hoover was a fucking genius compared to the Orange Turd.

Yeah yeah, I already know your obsession over Hillary losing the election to President Trump. Would you care to expand on the OP Mr. History buff?

---

(March 2, 2018 at 12:27 pm)Jenny A Wrote: The real question is can Congress get it together to stop him?  There's broad disapproval on both sides of the aisle.  My guess is, they won't.

I understand the motive behind the move but historically this hasn't panned out well for the U.S.

Don't worry too much, after all that was just the opinion of the last person Trump spoke to. He just wings it and will change his mind tomorrow. 
Remember he isn't really president. He just plays one on TV.

(March 2, 2018 at 1:27 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Jenny A nailed it: 'jobs theater'.

I expect that Trump's pandering to his base will only intensify as he increasingly feels the squeeze from the Mueller investigation. The one thing you can count on with Trump is that it's all about him all the time. No policy idea is too bad to be considered, so long as the dipshits who voted for him think it will benefit them or otherwise represents their "values". They are all he has left, and he knows it.

I am not a fan of tariffs and trade wars. But that's what you would expect from a neo-liberal internationalist. That reminds me, I need to renew my Illuminati membership this month.

That particular base, those blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and Coal States, used to be a major voting base for the democratic party for better than thirty years. They hadn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate for that time span, until 2016. Hillary didn't even step one foot in Wisconsin during her whole campaign and ended up losing the State. After watching their factories, their mills, and their mines shut down and watched their jobs go overseas they figured thirty years of the Dems was enough for them. It was the dems who couldn't hold on to their base. What do the Dems offer to get those lost votes back?

(March 2, 2018 at 1:52 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(March 2, 2018 at 1:27 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Jenny A nailed it: 'jobs theater'.

I expect that Trump's pandering to his base will only intensify as he increasingly feels the squeeze from the Mueller investigation. The one thing you can count on with Trump is that it's all about him all the time. No policy idea is too bad to be considered, so long as the dipshits who voted for him think it will benefit them or otherwise represents their "values". They are all he has left, and he knows it.

I am not a fan of tariffs and trade wars. But that's what you would expect from a neo-liberal internationalist. That reminds me, I need to renew my Illuminati membership this month.

That particular base, those blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and Coal States, used to be a major voting base for the democratic party for better than thirty years. They hadn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate for that time span, until 2016. Hillary didn't even step one foot in Wisconsin during her whole campaign and ended up losing the State. After watching their factories, their mills, and their mines shut down and watched their jobs go overseas they figured thirty of the Dems was enough for them. It was the dems who couldn't hold on to their base. What do the Dems offer to get those lost votes back?

Not a damn thing, apparently. Also not my problem, since I'm not a Democrat.

I'm curious to know which Democrat-sponsored policies you think specifically resulted in these jobs losses. Much of it appears to be the result of automation, on the one hand, and changing markets on the other. It seems odd that angry, out-of-work voters would throw in with the party that most fully embraces capitalism in all its destructive/creative glory. True, Trump sold economic nationalism, but it strikes me as naïve to think that the party he temporarily leads would abandon a cornerstone of their economic worldview just to accommodate him.

Lol i love how Ahole sits around and blames the Dems for economic conditions that no  politician could control . And Hilary could have taken a billion trips to Wisconsin  and delivered a million false promises like Trump has . it would not have mattered . No it's not the Dems who need to win back those people . It's those people who need to wake up and smell the coffee. The economic situation they knew is dead it's not coming back no matter what politician  shows up . And in 30 years from now all Trumps promises will have been for not .

Probably the final nail in the coffin of the British steel industry.

(March 2, 2018 at 4:05 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: And in 30 years from now all Trumps promises will have been for not .

Perhaps. But at least we'll always have the Trump Presidential Library. 

(March 2, 2018 at 1:52 pm)A Theist Wrote: That particular base, those blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and Coal States, used to be a major voting base for the democratic party for better than thirty years. They hadn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate for that time span, until 2016. Hillary didn't even step one foot in Wisconsin during her whole campaign and ended up losing the State. After watching their factories, their mills, and their mines shut down and watched their jobs go overseas they figured thirty years of the Dems was enough for them. It was the dems who couldn't hold on to their base. What do the Dems offer to get those lost votes back?

Free trade helps everyone in the long run, but does hurt particular industries. Tariffs help protected industries in the short term and hurt everyone else in the long and short term. They don't even help the protected industries in the long run.

Too much union power leads to automation and globalization.

During the 1950-1980s Democrats tried to save these particular workers' jobs through unions, tariffs, and buy American, and buy union campaigns. It didn't work.

In the 1990s and 2000s Democrats added reeducation, layoff notice requirements, and relocation benefits. The workers generally stayed put, did not take advantage of reeducation, and collected unemployment and welfare benefits instead. The Democrats were mostly responsible for the generous unemployment and welfare benefits which may have caused the workers to ignore relocation and education. In any case, way too many of them are unemployed and still living in the town they were born in. And they still don't have advanced training.

Republicans told them to go find another job. Good advice, but not taken.

Meanwhile due to automation and global wage competition, I don't see those jobs coming back.

What Trump is doing is making them feel like something is being done while accomplishing nothing for them and hurting the rest of us. I doubt the Dems or Republicans can do much of anything for them if working in their old industry is the only solution they will accept.

In other words it's job theater.

Actual votes are more complicated. I think this particular group is more anti PC, anti-feminism, anti-affirmative action, and more racist, sexist, and homophobic, than most of the U. S. That puts them in direct opposition to Democrats stated ideals and actions over the last three decades. The surprising thing is how long it took them to go.

However, other than making them feel better about themselves, I doubt limiting women's, minority, or homosexual rights will do much for them. Nor will keeping immigrants out of the country.

The factory worker based economy in the U. S. Is dead.

(March 2, 2018 at 4:38 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 2, 2018 at 4:05 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: And in 30 years from now all Trumps promises will have been for not .

Perhaps. But at least we'll always have the Trump Presidential Library. 

Perhaps not. Maybe they'll be stupid enough to build it in New York City. IF they do it will eventually be underwater.


As far as lost jobs go I'm pretty sure the free trade movement initially got rolling in US politics during Reagan's campaign against Carter. I'm also pretty sure that more republicans than democrats in both the house and senate voted for NAFTA.

(March 2, 2018 at 5:08 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: As far as lost jobs go I'm pretty sure the free trade movement initially got rolling in US politics during Reagan's campaign against Carter. I'm also pretty sure that more republicans than democrats in both the house and senate voted for NAFTA.

Yes, NAFTA was hammered out under the first Bush administration but went into effect under Clinton.

So naturally, conservatives who like to bitch about our trade agreements blame the Democrats, despite the deal being essentially a Republican agreement. Such is politics in America.

(March 2, 2018 at 4:38 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Perhaps. But at least we'll always have the Trump Presidential Library. 

Great field trip for kindergartners.  There'll only be picture books there.  Though I'm not sure the pictures in the books will be appropriate for kindergartners.