(August 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm)paintpooper Wrote: Reasons for unemployment.

Outsourcing.

Mechanization of remedial tasks.

Money.

Just flat out not enough jobs?

Reasons for unemployment:

American labor pool is of a quality substantially inferior to the rate of pay they've become accustomed to demanding. Period.

The rate of pay is only relative to the costs of goods and services. If my rate of pay does not allow me to afford the goods and services I need then I need a higher rate of pay. Costs of services has skyrocketed where as the rate of pay has not.
Example. I make about the same I did 4 years ago, +2000 perhaps a year. When the cost of my food, energy, shelter, increases faster than the rate of pay there is a problem, because if that continues....Average condo where I live now 150,000 4-5 years ago same property 100,000. It does not make sense at all to me how that is possible without money just being created out of thin air.

Yep, a chinese laborer in China, try that in the states. I don't think I have to harp about the impossibility of raising a family on minimum wage. What are we trying to say, that the world wants brain surgeons but not janitors? Good luck with that world.

Money isn't being made out of thin air Pop, it's just the deregulation and increasing levels of globalization have allowed us to exploit resources that were always there, just not "available" to us. Nothing inherently good or bad there.

(August 30, 2011 at 4:20 pm)paintpooper Wrote: The rate of pay is only relative to the costs of goods and services. If my rate of pay does not allow me to afford the goods and services I need then I need a higher rate of pay. Costs of services has skyrocketed where as the rate of pay has not.
Example. I make about the same I did 4 years ago, +2000 perhaps a year. When the cost of my food, energy, shelter, increases faster than the rate of pay there is a problem, because if that continues....Average condo where I live now 150,000 4-5 years ago same property 100,000. It does not make sense at all to me how that is possible without money just being created out of thin air.

Well, cost of goods and services is a function of the rate of other people's pay and the cost of raw material. For the most part, Chinese raw material cost the same amount as American raw material, so that means essentially the whole reason why American rate of pay must be higher because of cost of goods and services is precisely American rates of pay already embodies in delivering those cost of goods and service is already too high for the value it adds.

We have to pay minimum wage earners more to feed a family precisely because we are already paying people to much to make the food what the minimum wage earners have to buy.

(August 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm)paintpooper Wrote: Reasons for unemployment.

Outsourcing.

Mechanization of remedial tasks.

Money.

Just flat out not enough jobs?

Reasons for unemployment:

American labor pool is of a quality substantially inferior to the rate of pay they've become accustomed to demanding. Period.

Solutions:

Two are possible:

1. Get use to Chinese rate of pay and work ethics. The Chinese can do it, Americans had better learn to do it or else just admit the Chinese deserves to be able to eat more than we do.

2. Make the labor pool learn how to leverage such infrastructural and technological advantage that remains to us so that while demanding more pay than the Chinese, we also add proportionally more value, not just in our own eyes, but in the eyes of the wallets of those who might buy our wares.

In other words, quite looking for excuses to extract some kind of bandaid subsidy.

Good luck on that. The Chinese pay is an unlivable wage in America, and elsewhere. Highly skilled workers in China make roughly a dollar a day. They are almost always subsidized by their company by being given 3 meals per day and a cot on the job site to sleep. Medical care is universal over there, so he doesnt have to pay for it.

They only way we could compete with the is bring back slavery..which many white right wingers would GLADLY jump on board and and volunteer all of the blacks and mexicans for that job.

In other words..please do some homework on the topic before you decide to pass judgement. Are you ready to work 5 times harder for LESS than a dollar a day, pay for your own food, home and medicine? Otherwise the Chinese will ALWAYS dominate YOU as well.

(August 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yep, a chinese laborer in China, try that in the states. I don't think I have to harp about the impossibility of raising a family on minimum wage. What are we trying to say, that the world wants brain surgeons but not janitors? Good luck with that world.

That's because a Chinese labor in China doesn't have to contend with the fact that the entire supply chain ending in his dinner table is over paid. An American labor does. Still, the problem with American economy is systemic inadaquacy of labor quality relative to rates of pay throughout the entire economy.

And without that overpaid american work pool, how much would labor be worth in china? Seems to me we buy a lot of their products chuck. Don't worry, Nigeria is ripe for the next big things, and who knows whatever shithole after that. Global Capitalism baby, spreading the wealth from the rich to the poor. (Except that in the end we'll all be fucking poor)

Quote:Yes I understand the US is mainly a service economy now, but an all service economy is not sustainable.

You don't have to tell me. Tell those shithead republicans in Congress.

(August 30, 2011 at 4:27 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yep, a chinese laborer in China, try that in the states. I don't think I have to harp about the impossibility of raising a family on minimum wage. What are we trying to say, that the world wants brain surgeons but not janitors? Good luck with that world.

That's because a Chinese labor in China doesn't have to contend with the fact that the entire supply chain ending in his dinner table is over paid. An American labor does. Still, the problem with American economy is systemic inadaquacy of labor quality relative to rates of pay throughout the entire economy.

There you go again. Do you even understand basic world economy? What part of "you cant compete with a dollar a day pay" do you not understand? And also, making sound as if it is the typical Americans fault is quite rude as well.. I expect lies like that from most right wingers. In reality the Chineese people are being taken advantage of their government and the American companies who go over there to do business with them..and they want the same thing here.

They dont want upward mobility. They want a plutocracy, with a select few having all of the money, while the rest fight over the scraps they drop from their tables..and the chinese have allowed them to do such a thing.

Not only allowed but enabled and then obfuscated.

(August 30, 2011 at 4:26 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Good luck on that. The Chinese pay is an unlivable wage in America, and elsewhere. Highly skilled workers in China make roughly a dollar a day. They are almost always subsidized by their company by being given 3 meals per day and a cot on the job site to sleep. Medical care is universal over there, so he doesnt have to pay for it.

They only way we could compete with the is bring back slavery..which many white right wingers would GLADLY jump on board and and volunteer all of the blacks and mexicans for that job.

In other words..please do some homework on the topic before you decide to pass judgement. Are you ready to work 5 times harder for LESS than a dollar a day, pay for your own food, home and medicine? Otherwise the Chinese will ALWAYS dominate YOU as well.

Technically incorrect, there is essentially no medical insurance for most in China, and even emergency rooms demand payment upfront to stem your bleeding.

The fact that Chinese workers maybe subsidized with meals is irrelevent to the comparative quality of labor. The cost of the meal is rolled into the cost the products they make to sell, so whether their employers pay for their meals, or pay them to go out and buy their own meals, does not change the fact that they are more competitive than we are.

Bring back slave wages is one way we might try to compete, but Chinese would gripe less than Americans, so I expect we would lose even if we accept same wage for same nominal work as Chinese. Another way to compete is to maintain such superiority in the quality of infrastructure and facility that for the same effort, an American labor can turn out a lot more stuff, and therefore a lot more value, than the Chinese labor. This is how technologically advanced nations had always competed against backward nations. But this has now appearely become something we think is "socialist" to even try.