(March 6, 2018 at 3:20 pm)orthodox-man Wrote: I seen those videos, I know that BelieveitorNot (the youtube channel) scripts their NDEs, they hire actors, and pay them to give fake accounts. That account is scripted. There is no emotion in her face, the Christian ones feel more genuine.

So are the Christian, like that bestseller book and a movie "The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven", it's author Alex Malarkey wrote:
"I did not die. I did not go to Heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to."
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...-pull-book

Imagine that. So many people not only believed him, but still do and many NDE experts proclaimed it to be genuine. Not to mention that writing book about NDE will most likely get you to bestseller list gives people a lot of motivation to claim NDE and write books about it.

(March 6, 2018 at 11:48 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(March 6, 2018 at 3:20 pm)orthodox-man Wrote: I seen those videos, I know that BelieveitorNot (the youtube channel) scripts their NDEs, they hire actors, and pay them to give fake accounts. That account is scripted. There is no emotion in her face, the Christian ones feel more genuine.

So are the Christian, like that bestseller book and a movie "The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven", it's author Alex Malarkey wrote:
"I did not die. I did not go to Heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to."
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...-pull-book

Imagine that. So many people not only believed him, but still do and many NDE experts proclaimed it to be genuine. Not to mention that writing book about NDE will most likely get you to bestseller list gives people a lot of motivation to claim NDE and write books about it.

I know Christians lie, but I assume at least 90% of their NDEs are genuine, I don't think they lie on purpose, but I agree some definitely do. I also wonder if they could have slightly changed the story after influence from others and years of retelling it before it is published. However, it just seems there are so many Christian ones, and the NDEs from other cultures seem so sketchy. I'm not saying for a fact it proves Christianity. If it is in fact only hallucinations, I want to know why Christians hallucinate Jesus, whereas Muslims rarely hallucinate Muhammad. If it is really true that we can shape our hallucinations, that may answer the question.

(March 7, 2018 at 12:30 am)orthodox-man Wrote:

(March 6, 2018 at 11:48 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: So are the Christian, like that bestseller book and a movie "The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven", it's author Alex Malarkey wrote:
"I did not die. I did not go to Heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to."
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...-pull-book

Imagine that. So many people not only believed him, but still do and many NDE experts proclaimed it to be genuine. Not to mention that writing book about NDE will most likely get you to bestseller list gives people a lot of motivation to claim NDE and write books about it.

I know Christians lie, but I assume at least 90% of their NDEs are genuine, I don't think they lie on purpose, but I agree some definitely do. I also wonder if they could have slightly changed the story after influence from others and years of retelling it before it is published. However, it just seems there are so many Christian ones, and the NDEs from other cultures seem so sketchy. I'm not saying for a fact it proves Christianity. If it is in fact only hallucinations, I want to know why Christians hallucinate Jesus, whereas Muslims rarely hallucinate Muhammad. If it is really true that we can shape our hallucinations, that may answer the question.

I wouldnt put it like that. What I said yes to was worded differently from how youre wording it now. Ideas can shape hallucinations, but not necessarily you consciously shaping them.

Have you ever asked yourself why all the NDE's are so different? I mean really stop and think about it. Why would everyone's experience be different? Yet that's exactly what we see. Very different experiences. And that's just among the Christian NDE's. We haven't gotten into the Hindu NDE's (and yes, Hindu NDE's exist) Or the Japanese or Chinese NDE's.

Also like I tried to explain NDE is big industry in US that is predominantly Christian, Muslims are not that much into NDE, just like some Christian denominations are into Marian apparitions and reliquies from angels while other denominations don't care about it.

Americans are also interested in reincarnation so therefore there are also vivid memories and books about it. One of the best examples is Virginia Tighe who was the poster child for "past life regression" in the 1950s when, under hypnosis, she spoke of being the reincarnation of a 19th century Irish woman named Bridey Murphy. Her story was published in a bestseller book, The Search for Bridey Murphy, in 1956 and was a sensation, becoming a best seller. A Hollywood movie was made the same year. Suddenly everyone believed in reincarnation and in hypnotic past life regression.
Now what's interesting about Tighe is that she never believed a word of the reincarnation story and even refused to give permission for her name to be used in the book, so it used a fake name. And yet despite all that millions of people believed it was true, because they want to believe and therefore rationalize that, although she said it's a lie made up by her doctor, it must be true and kept buying the book.

Or the one that's making rounds now James Leininger, born in April 1998, is the subject of books and TV shows and countless articles citing him as proof of reincarnation, bolstered by an assailable mountain of "undeniable proof".

guys, I have read some of the Japanese accounts, they are very similar to Christian ones, but usually consist of no deities. I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

(March 7, 2018 at 4:34 am)orthodox-man Wrote: but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

They don't have shit like this regarding Mohamed all over the place that makes you hallucinate

(March 7, 2018 at 4:34 am)orthodox-man Wrote: guys, I have read some of the Japanese accounts, they are very similar to Christian ones, but usually consist of no deities. I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

Simple.

If atheists would admit that NDEs are real the atheist chariot would collapse and disintegrate in no time.  

Sooner or later it will collapse anyway but the longer it keep on the road the longer the fantasy keep alive.  

(March 7, 2018 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 4:34 am)orthodox-man Wrote: guys, I have read some of the Japanese accounts, they are very similar to Christian ones, but usually consist of no deities. I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

Simple.

If atheists would admit that NDEs are real the atheist chariot would collapse and disintegrate in no time.  

Sooner or later it will collapse anyway but the longer it keep on the road the longer the fantasy keep alive.  

NDE's are real experiences.... But still meaningless experiences. People can imagine all sorts of strange stuff under the influence of medication, when you have been conditioned to see certain things it's not surprising that some people see certain things, couple that with a large dose of wishful thinking and Bob's your uncle Fanny's your aunt.

(March 7, 2018 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 4:34 am)orthodox-man Wrote: guys, I have read some of the Japanese accounts, they are very similar to Christian ones, but usually consist of no deities. I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

Simple.

If atheists would admit that NDEs are real the atheist chariot would collapse and disintegrate in no time.  

Sooner or later it will collapse anyway but the longer it keep on the road the longer the fantasy keep alive.  

Actually, LR, atheists know more about NDE then you or religious persons that take it for granted, like this article in Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...ear-death/

Not all is understood, of course, but enough is to make it clear that the dying or oxygen-deprived brain is probably behind these events. For example, the tunnel of light that many dying or distressed people have reported seeing is likely nothing more than the tunnel vision that occurs when the eyes don't get enough blood and oxygen. Researchers have also found that some drugs can trigger hallucinations and out-of-body experiences.

When it comes to eternal life it is not closed for atheists, because in few years or decades we may all may become immortal with cloned organs ready to be replaced and micro robots repairing us.

On the other hand existence after death that religious leaders have been selling us for as long as there has been religion is a terribly destructive hope if it leads people to demand less of themselves in this life because they expect more after they die and don't actually involve more in science.