(March 18, 2018 at 11:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Magic book worshipers.  As soon as the shamans aren't looking, and god's up the mountain...what do they do?  Fashion a golden calf.

You'd think that all the previous miracles would have been convincing enough.

Two possible conclusions:

1. The Israelites were dumb as fuck.
2. It's a made up story.

(March 19, 2018 at 10:30 am)SteveII Wrote: It stands to reason there is only one correct concept of God. It also stands to reason that if the redemption of mankind through Christs is the single most important event in the history of the world, groundwork for that has to be laid for centuries or more. Concepts have to be understood and critical mass has to be built. This kind of continues in my comments below.

Firstly, that doesn't stand to reason..but what does is that it might be that no current god concept is the accurate one even if there -is- only one accurate concept.  

Quote:Pluralism cannot be true because most religions make implicit and explicit claims of exclusivity.

Pluralism can't be true because religions say stuff?  Plenty of people will tell you that they're the only place you can get something. Every charlatan and their brother, too, says their magic sauce is only available from them, despite sugar water being commonly available in any kitchen..pretty much anywhere.

Quote:For example, if the Christians are right, then mankind's state is in need of repair that is beyond our ability. That is either true or not true.

Maybe it's not true.  Maybe that's part of the christian inaccuracy, even if some other part is accurate.  Honestly, if it turned out that you weren't actually in need of any repair beyond your own ability, that this was some nonsense a guy named bob came up with..... would you stop believing in the god you believed in? I doubt it, it's not as if every christian now or at any point in history accepts the depravity doctrine.

The mind wonders what it is you could have possibly done to be in such a state, anyway, lol.

(March 18, 2018 at 11:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Magic book worshipers.  As soon as the shamans aren't looking, and god's up the mountain...what do they do?  Fashion a golden calf.

Yeah, that's the main thing that bothers me about that story... that even if it's taken at face value it's not realistic; if I'd just seen the sea part in front of my eyes... in Ten Commandments fashion... not the new one... I wouldn't be quick to forget it. But if it was just favourable tides that they witnessed, then their continued idolatry makes more sense.

Seems realistic enough to me.  Christians have fashioned themselves a new golden calf in the form of magic book. They'd spite god himself in favor of the jots and tittles.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:14 am)Khemikal Wrote: Seems realistic enough to me.  Christians have fashioned themselves a new golden calf in the form of magic book.  They'd spite god himself in favor of the jots and tittles.

I'm talking about more immediately than that... not about how Christianity has developed over time, but in the face of witnessing an awe-inspiring miracle... to then figuratively the next day go out and start worshiping something else doesn't make much sense.

What could be more immediate than seeing god incarnate and then turning into idolators directly following it's alleged crucifixion? If there ever was such a character, it's followers wasted absolutely no time in worshiping stories and traditions and earthly authority and graven images, instead.

They couldn't even decide between themselves which idols to worship - that took the judicious application of a sword..much as it did in magic book.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:31 am)emjay Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:14 am)Khemikal Wrote: Seems realistic enough to me.  Christians have fashioned themselves a new golden calf in the form of magic book.  They'd spite god himself in favor of the jots and tittles.

I'm talking about more immediately than that... not about how Christianity has developed over time, but in the face of witnessing an awe-inspiring miracle... to then figuratively the next day go out and start worshiping something else doesn't make much sense.

What was it they found so uninspiring with the plagues Moses had inflicted on Egypt ??

Egypt was a shithole anyhow, (hence their desire to leave) and the plagues weren't that much of an incremental deterioration in the conditions there ??

(March 19, 2018 at 11:41 am)Khemikal Wrote: What could be more immediate than seeing god incarnate and then turning into idolators directly following it's alleged crucifixion?  If there ever was such a character, it's followers wasted absolutely no time in worshiping stories and traditions and earthly authority and graven images, instead.

They couldn't even decide between themselves which idols to worship - that took the judicious application of a sword..much as it did in magic book.

Okay... but isn't that still the difference between eye witnesses and those hearing about it second hand? Ie if you're an eye-witness to a miracle then you're not gonna forget it, but if you're just learning about it second hand then interpretation and all that other stuff comes into play... and then the branching of a religion makes sense. I think you're just looking at this in more depth than I am.

IDK, is it?  The christers insist that the religion they follow is the religion of those eyewitnesses.  Hell, one of them is supposed to have denied his god how many times at the seminal moment?

It's a fiction that christianity branched, at the outset, btw. That it started as a monolith that then flung out into subsects. It began "branched"..and the early history of the church is the history of attempting to establish a christian monolith. To smash the bull and kill the worshipers. There were no witnesses to these events, which never occurred. Just a bunch of pagans dancing around bovine peen from the outset until one group had killed or suppressed the others effectively, appropriating their literature or traditions as it suited.

They failed, obviously..and christianity remains as fractious and idolatrous and blasphemous today as it ever was. Ask a jew.