Yeah, I think that Bible and Christianity teaches people to obey their masters and the elite. I mean if we just look at this forum we see Christians that obey blindly to politicians and apologize for them because they were told to by their religious leaders.
And there are plenty of verses to back that up, like: Colossians 3:22  Slaves, obey your human masters in all things, not only when they are watching you because you want to gain their approval; but do it with a sincere heart because of your reverence for the Lord

1 Timothy 6:1-2 Those who are slaves must consider their masters worthy of all respect, so that no one will speak evil of the name of God and our teaching. Slaves belonging to Christian masters must not despise them, for they are their brothers. Instead they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their work are believers whom they love';

Philippians 2:14 Do everything without complaining or arguing'

And so on. In each instance, serving one's master faithfully is linked to serving the Lord faithfully. Employment of the Bible to strengthen the hand of those on top is unmistakable. Such teachings aid the elite by enabling them to rule more efficiently and thoroughly. Those in charge understandably deplore activism not out of any humanitarian motives but because they do not want the pyramid upset. Peace to the elite is the maintenance of the status quo with itself at the apex.

What comes in my mind also are those fairy tales from the not so recent past, like you had a regular guy that's nobody that finds some magical animal or artifact that turns him into a prince because up until recent past there was no way out of the place you were born into. You were born a peasant or barber or blacksmith and you died like that. The only way you could have any political meaning was if you looked like a king and you were somehow switched in the castle with him or you found a magical frog that turned you into one. Because you were born a king and Pope gave you "holy anointment" to show people that the Lord wants you to be a king and there was no other way.
God and Church was used to show people who is in charge and that's why Church fought a lot against democracy in the 19th century.

(March 24, 2018 at 1:37 am)Banned Wrote:

(March 24, 2018 at 12:48 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: God killed himself to pay himself in order to save us from himself.

Ultimate reality doesn't have a delete or reset button.
You are welcome to work it out, but the existence of the only source of life isn't as simple as a set on hollywood or a cartoon.

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(March 24, 2018 at 1:29 am)Minimalist Wrote: Hey, dumbfuck.  The RCC set the parameters for all the fucking bullshit that assholes like Luther and Calvin came up with later.  Give credit where it is due.  They created your bullshit story.

That's an ill informed remark, but no surprise from your perspective.

What the hell are you talking about?

Here's an example of what Christianity is all about from the Papal breve Quod aliquantum of March 1791 where Pope Pius VI spoke out against the republic, democracy, and human rights:

Quote:"In the eyes of the Assembly, this monstrous law is based in the freedom and equality natural to the human being, yet can there be something more incomprehensible than setting such a licentious freedom and equality? This freedom […] which the National Assembly grants humans as an inalienable inborn right is incompatible with the law set by God the Creator. After all, as St. Augustine said, human society is nothing more than only a general contract to listen to kings whose power stems not from a social contract but from God."

(March 24, 2018 at 1:37 am)Banned Wrote:

(March 24, 2018 at 1:29 am)Minimalist Wrote: Hey, dumbfuck.  The RCC set the parameters for all the fucking bullshit that assholes like Luther and Calvin came up with later.  Give credit where it is due.  They created your bullshit story.

That's an ill informed remark, but no surprise from your perspective.

Yo, Banned! You need to look into what Min is talking about. He is totally correct on this!

You know what my pet name for protestants is? Diet Catholics.

All Protestant denominations (including yours) have more in common with Catholics than they do the Early Christian Church. And don't come back at me with some nay saying bullcrap. Take the time to look into Minimalist's claims. If you want to disagree with them, fine, but first demonstrate that you know what the fuck he is talking about.

(March 22, 2018 at 11:17 pm)Libertarian God Wrote: I have always felt this to be true. I do know that this is a very common theme I have heard and read as well. That religion was created to control people and the proper way to do that was to use the deterrents of hell and a vengeful God. I do know the Catholic church really grasped onto this. For instance, they did not allow regular people to read the bible; only priests could. Was this to keep out all the stuff they did not want the masses to see? What are your thoughts?

I wouldn't single out one religion. Most humans hold a religion worldwide. As long as humans hold religions those groups will always attempt to influence politics. You cant get a Tibet Buddhist to agree on politics with a Chinese or Japanese Buddhist either. Just like you cant get a Sunni and Shiite to agree on how a government should be run.

Politicians throughout worldwide history have always pandered to one group or another. You wont force any religion out of existence, to try would make one a monster. The best humans can do, and seem to do better in the west, is to insist on equal protection, common law. 

I wouldn't put it like that. Christianity came first, using it as a political tool came later when the powers saw it becoming popular.

All religions start the same way, as a form of competition, nothing divine about that. Humans see old ways, don't like the old ways, and take bits and pieces of old motifs and create new characters. Everyone loves a hero story.

Islam and Christianity and Jews all stem from the same central God of Abraham. But even the Jews "Hebrews", took their Yahweh character from older Canaanite polytheism. In that "El", was the head God of a divine family and Yahweh was his "elohim" a lesser deity.

Even when you compare older Hinduism to Buddhism, and see the close proximity to India where Buddhism started, and you see the overlap such as Karma and reincarnation it  is obvious someone was borrowing older motifs.

Even the Rasta religion is simply a spin off of African/Christian/Jewish roots.

It should not surprise anyone that if 2,000 years from now we saw a Star Wars religion, or Star Trek religion, if L. Ron Hubbard, a si fi writer can concoct a religion don't scoff at the idea.

Politicians do find religion useful yes, but that is not a Christian only patent. Humans seek power and as long as humans do they will pander to those who give them support. The same can be said of a political party, economic view too, not just religion.

@ OP Q.  It -certainly- wasn't started with that in mind..but once it existed..it's utility in that regard became as apparent then as it is now.

(March 24, 2018 at 10:51 am)Khemikal Wrote: @ OP Q.  It -certainly- wasn't started with that in mind..but once it existed..it's utility in that regard became as apparent then as it is now.

No one calls himself son of god because he didn’t want to control others. If he didn’t, he would have kept his mouth shut even if he is psychotic enough to think he is the son of god.

No tries to impress upon others they have special ticket to ever lasting life unless they want to control those to whom he is peddling that bullshit. Otherwise even if they were deluded enough to believe their own bull shit, they wouldn’t be running around spreading the “good news”.

I think Christianity started at its very origin at jesus, and amongst the band of misfits who actually talked to, or only once or twice removed from, the character jesus, exactly as a means to control other people.   It may have started amongst the utmost fringe characters in the society so far removed from where the power in their society appear to lay that it didn’t seem likely they could have harbored reasonable ambitions to exert control.  This is the story Christians continue to peddle to disguise the nature of their religion at its very origin.

But it is precisely because jesus and they were so alienated from the establish system of control that they had to look for a new set of myths that elevate themselves above the established society in order to convince themselves of their worthiness to control others and to wedge their influence into the society around them.

It might also have been that alienation that lead them..as victims (real or imagined) sometimes do, to become victimizers themselves when the opportunity arose. Armed with fictitious stories of persecution...they set about to persecute in return - starting with each other...and then spreading to pretty much fuckin errybody.

(March 24, 2018 at 11:27 am)Khemikal Wrote: It might also have been that alienation that lead them..as victims (real or imagined) sometimes do, to become victimizers themselves when the opportunity arose.  Armed with fictitious stories of persecution...they set about to persecute in return - starting with each other...and then spreading to pretty much fuckin errybody.

There are better ways to unvictimize oneself than to say one is the son of god or have special access to son of god. To claim one to be the son of god is to place one above others so as to better control them.

One fights injustice with a peasant revolt. One seeks to control others by appealing to god.

Wholeheartedly agree..but, then...we're not really dealing with a tradition that took the high road to any real or perceived injustice against them..and while there are infinitely better ways to "unvictimized"....the way they went with it is history.